Adding New Fish ?

[afc_steve]

Hi all. Ive been keeping tropical fish since January this year , so am relatively new to the hobby. I have a 60 litre tank with the following fish :

1 Angel
2 Silver sharks
1 Albino Molly
1 Pearl Gourami - female i think
1 Albino Catfish
1 Swordtail ( had him since the start )

Up until 2 days ago we had a guppy as well , but he seems to have dissappeared , perhaps becoming someones lunch !

The Angel is a very dominant fish , as seem to be the Gourami and Molly , and my question is this , what fish if any , can i add to this community without all hell breaking loose ? I have added others in the past , male fighter , mollys , but there's always been a nipping or bullying problem.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Curiosity101]

I can't advise any new fish to be put in that tank as there are many unsuitable ones in it at the moment...

The Angel needs a tank height of at least 15" to allow it to move around without issues so will become too big for that tank
The Silver Sharks (I presume Bala Shark?) - Grow anywhere from 6" up to 14" a 6ft tank is needed to keep them healthy and happy
Pearl Gourami - Grow to 4" and need 100l+ and an aquarium length of around 4ft

Sooooo, if you got rid of the above fish then you would be left with:
1 White Molly
1 Albino Catfish (Albino Cory?)
1 Swordtail

And I could then give you plenty of advice on what you could add.

The aggression issues you are encountering are mainly down to incorrect conditions for each fish.

Also, the losses you've been experiencing...did you fishless cycle the tank when you first got it? If you didn't then the original stock of fish will have been subjected to fish-in cycling, this means they are exposed to high levels of ammonia and nitrite. This causes permenant damage and significantly shortens the lifespan of those fish.
So it could well be that any of the original fish had too much internal damage and have subsequently died.

If it was new additions that have died then I'd suspect something is up with your water.
Do you have a test kit? If so what are you water test results?
If it the strip based kit then they're quite in-accurate but will do to give us a rough idea.

 

[afc_steve]

I can't advise any new fish to be put in that tank as there are many unsuitable ones in it at the moment...

The Angel needs a tank height of at least 15" to allow it to move around without issues so will become too big for that tank
The Silver Sharks (I presume Bala Shark?) - Grow anywhere from 6" up to 14" a 6ft tank is needed to keep them healthy and happy
Pearl Gourami - Grow to 4" and need 100l+ and an aquarium length of around 4ft

Sooooo, if you got rid of the above fish then you would be left with:
1 White Molly
1 Albino Catfish (Albino Cory?)
1 Swordtail

And I could then give you plenty of advice on what you could add.

The aggression issues you are encountering are mainly down to incorrect conditions for each fish.

Also, the losses you've been experiencing...did you fishless cycle the tank when you first got it? If you didn't then the original stock of fish will have been subjected to fish-in cycling, this means they are exposed to high levels of ammonia and nitrite. This causes permenant damage and significantly shortens the lifespan of those fish.
So it could well be that any of the original fish had too much internal damage and have subsequently died.

If it was new additions that have died then I'd suspect something is up with your water.
Do you have a test kit? If so what are you water test results?
If it the strip based kit then they're quite in-accurate but will do to give us a rough idea.

Thankyou for your reply. Regarding the condition of my water , i have had it tested only once around 3 months ago at my local aquarium shop , who informed me that everythng seemed ok. I have since then been changing around 10 - 15 percent of the water weekly and using an aditive to eliminate the chloride.

As far as getting rid of my Angel , gourami and silver sharks - what do you suggest ? I dont know anybody that would take them. I didnt realise they all grew so big !! The Angel is my favourite but is very terrortorial and seems to be the only one interested when i treat them to live bloodworm. Ive obviously got an awful lot to learn , but i will take on board your advice , thankyou for now. Stephen.

 

[jmkgreen]

Ask your pet shop if they know a fish keeper who can give them a home. Failing that search online for local interest groups.

 

[Curiosity101]

I would suggest getting a test kit if possible. (Liquid based kit called 'API Master Test Kit' is a great one to get)

And was in newly added fish or the original fish that have been dying?
If it's the original fish I explained why they'd be dying.
If it's newly added fish then I'd guess either your tank isn't fully cycled (probably is cycled) or your nitrates may be quite high. Causing stress to new additions.
I'd up your weekly water changes to 20-25% just to be sure, which on a 60l tank is only 12-15l, so not a huge amount.

The gourami and the silver sharks do need re-homing. You can advertise on here or ring around local fish shops. Thing is that the fish shops aren't likely to give you any money for them (some will give store credit though! ). So it's up to you how you'd like the re-home them.
The angel MAY be able to stay depending on the dimensions of the tank. But I personally wouldn't keep and angel in anything less that 80l and that has a height of 15" as they do grow to around 6" in diameter.

Would this be the stocking you were left with?
1 White Molly
1 Albino Catfish (Albino Cory?)
1 Swordtail

If it is then my suggestions would be...
Up the number of albino corys to 5 as they do alot better as a group!
Perhaps add a couple more mollys, if it were me I'd probably get two more that are the same sex as your existing one. This will cut down the number of fry you may end up with. If you currently have a female molly then I'd get two more females. They may well have already been impregnanted at the lfs so are able to give birth to many groups of fry. But eventually with no males around the will run out of stored sperm.
I'd probably get another swordtail too to go with the other one.

So that would put you at
3 x Mollys
5 x Albino Corys
2 x Swordtail

Which would actually be a fully stocked tank and probably overstocked depending on your filter. But a 60l tank with a filter aimed at something more like an 80-100l tank would allow you to keep that many fish in a healthy happy environment.

 

[afc_steve]

I would suggest getting a test kit if possible. (Liquid based kit called 'API Master Test Kit' is a great one to get)

And was in newly added fish or the original fish that have been dying?
If it's the original fish I explained why they'd be dying.
If it's newly added fish then I'd guess either your tank isn't fully cycled (probably is cycled) or your nitrates may be quite high. Causing stress to new additions.
I'd up your weekly water changes to 20-25% just to be sure, which on a 60l tank is only 12-15l, so not a huge amount.

The gourami and the silver sharks do need re-homing. You can advertise on here or ring around local fish shops. Thing is that the fish shops aren't likely to give you any money for them (some will give store credit though! ). So it's up to you how you'd like the re-home them.
The angel MAY be able to stay depending on the dimensions of the tank. But I personally wouldn't keep and angel in anything less that 80l and that has a height of 15" as they do grow to around 6" in diameter.

Would this be the stocking you were left with?
1 White Molly
1 Albino Catfish (Albino Cory?)
1 Swordtail

If it is then my suggestions would be...
Up the number of albino corys to 5 as they do alot better as a group!
Perhaps add a couple more mollys, if it were me I'd probably get two more that are the same sex as your existing one. This will cut down the number of fry you may end up with. If you currently have a female molly then I'd get two more females. They may well have already been impregnanted at the lfs so are able to give birth to many groups of fry. But eventually with no males around the will run out of stored sperm.
I'd probably get another swordtail too to go with the other one.

So that would put you at
3 x Mollys
5 x Albino Corys
2 x Swordtail

Which would actually be a fully stocked tank and probably overstocked depending on your filter. But a 60l tank with a filter aimed at something more like an 80-100l tank would allow you to keep that many fish in a healthy happy environment.

Thanks again for your help. The gourami and the silver sharks are not that big you know , and ive had them around 4 or 5 months - they are pretty much the same size now as when i bought them , shame to get rid of them. Likewise the Angel - which is really the "highlight" of my tank , i'm even contemplating getting a bigger tank now so that i can keep him. I will keep you updated. Stephen.

 

[Curiosity101]

One big reason they may not be growing particularly fast is because they are in too small a volume of water.
I think it's widely accepted that fish release a growth hormone, when hormone levels reach a certain concentration it slows down the general growth of the fish. This, i'm pretty sure, is bad for their health. As it can lead to stunted growth and premature death.

If you'd placed the exact same fish in a tank 3x that size then you would probably have seen them grow much faster.

If you were thinking of upgrading to incorporate the angel then go for it! Just keep in mind 80l or more and a height of 15" and you can't go far wrong.
Where abouts are you in the UK? I could have a look around...
Places to look for tanks are:
www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk
www.ebay.co.uk
The classifieds on here
and your local free ads. For example as I'm in Sheffield I would use www.sheffieldforum.co.uk and go on the classifieds sections there.

You can of course buy a brand new tank, but if you re-home the sharks and gourami now then it should give you a bit of extra time to look for a bigger tank for the angel.

 

[afc_steve]

One big reason they may not be growing particularly fast is because they are in too small a volume of water.
I think it's widely accepted that fish release a growth hormone, when hormone levels reach a certain concentration it slows down the general growth of the fish. This, i'm pretty sure, is bad for their health. As it can lead to stunted growth and premature death.

If you'd placed the exact same fish in a tank 3x that size then you would probably have seen them grow much faster.

If you were thinking of upgrading to incorporate the angel then go for it! Just keep in mind 80l or more and a height of 15" and you can't go far wrong.
Where abouts are you in the UK? I could have a look around...
Places to look for tanks are:
www.aquarist-classifieds.co.uk
www.ebay.co.uk
The classifieds on here
and your local free ads. For example as I'm in Sheffield I would use www.sheffieldforum.co.uk and go on the classifieds sections there.

You can of course buy a brand new tank, but if you re-home the sharks and gourami now then it should give you a bit of extra time to look for a bigger tank for the angel.

I'm in Luton , Bedfordshire. Id love a great big tank , but ive got to twist my wifes arm first !!

 

[Curiosity101]

Right, don't know how close you live to luton airport. But I put that postcode into ebay and found a few really good tanks!
Postcode: LU2 9LY Sort By: Distance - Nearest First

The first tank is the perfect height for an angel, Dimensions: 24" long x 12" depth x 16" height. It's around 74l so only marginaly bigger than your current one. It's also currently on 99p! hehe.

The third tank is also a good size, Dimensions 30" long x 12" depth x 15" height. This is around 94l so you might not get away with that with your wife!

The fith one is more than perfect and would allow you too have quite a few angels...But at 100cm x 40cm x 40cm...not sure you'd get away with it.

Anyways, my point is that there are plenty of bargains around. So if you re-home the sharks and gourami then you'll give yourself enough time to find a nice cheapish tank before the angel outgrows the tank you have atm.

 

[afc_steve]

Right, don't know how close you live to luton airport. But I put that postcode into ebay and found a few really good tanks!
Postcode: LU2 9LY Sort By: Distance - Nearest First

The first tank is the perfect height for an angel, Dimensions: 24" long x 12" depth x 16" height. It's around 74l so only marginaly bigger than your current one. It's also currently on 99p! hehe.

The third tank is also a good size, Dimensions 30" long x 12" depth x 15" height. This is around 94l so you might not get away with that with your wife!

The fith one is more than perfect and would allow you too have quite a few angels...But at 100cm x 40cm x 40cm...not sure you'd get away with it.

Anyways, my point is that there are plenty of bargains around. So if you re-home the sharks and gourami then you'll give yourself enough time to find a nice cheapish tank before the angel outgrows the tank you have atm.

Thanks for your help , going to have a look on e bay now. Luton Airport is only a 20 minute drive from where i live. One other thing , i noticed you said i could have plenty of Angels - where as i specifically remember the guy in the aquarium shop refusing to sell me another as they would fight ?? Thanks again , stephen.

 

[Curiosity101]

Well it really just depends on the tank size. You can keep a breeding pair together in 80l. However to get a breeding pair you have to get a group of jouvenile fish and allow a pair for form. So say you go and get 5 angels after a few weeks/months (not sure exactly how long it normally takes), you should hopefully see two of them sticking together and shunning the other 3. You then re-home the others and are left with a breeding pair.

If you have enough room then you can get a tank that is big enough to hold a couple of pairs of breeding angels. They basically just need enough room with a good breeding site at opposite ends of the tank and they should co-exist. I can't remember how big a tank you'd need though...perhaps ask in the new world cichlid section?