Adding Ammonia

[KatienDavid]

Hi we were wondering on starting a fishless cycle for our 40 gal hex how much ammonia we should be adding to get the cycle going?

Thanks,
Katie and David

 

[toshapetriji]

You need to add ammonia to 5 part per million.

Cycling instructions here

 

[backtotropical]

Hi KatienDavid,

Do you have a bottle of ammonia which tells you what % ammonia is in it? If so, you can use the ammonia calculator.

Cheers

BTT

 

[OldMan47]

Don't forget that when you use the calculator not all of the tank is filled with water. At the most a 40 is likely to only have 35 gallons of water. The rest is things like gravel and decor. It's even worse than that because the typical tank name is based on outside dimensions so even without the gravel you would be lucky to get 37 or 38 gallons into it.

 

[KatienDavid]

Thank you for all your help we really appreciate the great advice we are getting from people you have all been a lot of help.

Thanks
David and Katie

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, I agree with BTT and oldman47. We've had a lot of success with the ammonia calculator, particularly in UK where they seem to print a pretty accurate percentage of ammonia in the solution in the bottle (they don't in the US.) But as oldman47 implies, there's nothing safer than testing -your- ammonia and then starting low and testing the final strength you get in -your- aquarium. You'll note that RDD mentions this in the Add&Wait fishless cycling article that is our working document here on TFF.

So the way you test, that I think is good anyway, is to add 2 gallons of tap water to a test bucket. Put the correct amount of conditioner (per the conditioner instructions) in there first. Then use your guesstimate like RDD talks about, adding a counted number of drops that is intended to put you on the low side of 4-5ppm ammonia. Stir the water around thoroughly and test. Add more drops, noting how many, and test again. In this way you can arrive at a very confident amount of ammonia to add to the aquarium the first time such that it won't go way over. None of this has to be super accurate, just rough in its own way, but you want to avoid going way over, say to 8ppm, because that can be bad for your fishless cycle.

By the way, it is reported that a drugstore syringe with numbered graduations (miililitres usually) is the best type tool to have, two of them, one for putting tank water into your test tubes and one exclusively for squirting ammonia into your tank. (personally I used 2 glass droppers and just learned the number of "full squirts" but the numbered syringe would be even better.) First few days I counted drops (a lot of drops) but then I realized I knew what was "close enough", because after all, you are just getting your "green" in the right range.

Hope that makes sense,
~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rooster]

Forget all about complicated maths.... use your test kit, and add a few drops until you hit the required % ! Then aim at keeping it there.... dont test every day - its a waste, do 2nd test after a week.
This is a "watched kettle" game.... you can understand why folk want to skip the waiting, but IT is beneficial in lots of way - not only now, but for years to come.... please be patient !

 

[KatienDavid]

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all the great advice, we really appreciate it. We added the ammonia and got it to 5ppm and waited about a week, tested today and it isn't exactly 5ppm but definitely isn't 0. So should we just wait another week and test again? It is hard to just sit there looking at a empty tank, but we know in the long run this is worth it. Anyways thanks again.

Katie and David

 

[OldMan47]

If it's in the 3 to 4 ppm range there is no hurry to add more. You already have an excess for any bacteria that you may have. When it starts dropping you definitely want to get it back above 4 ppm at least once a day but as long as you have an excess, any bacteria present have a meal waiting for them. It's really the best you can do for them. Th reason to go to 5 ppm is that it represents a very heavy fish biological load. Until you get some bacteria growing, there isn't much point to trying to get enough food in there for that many bacteria. I know this is not the standard advice but I see no reason to stress about the actual number until you start getting close to being cycled.

 

[Rooster]

Its easy to "see what you want" when testing.... if theres no dramatic change, I would wait at least 3 days to test again (theres no reason why you cant do it every five minutes - and I know the temptation IS to do this, but its a waste of time, and test kit !)

Once you have a drop to , say 2 or 3 ppm, then test daily BEFORE adding fresh ammonia (you will soon get a "feel" for how much to add... or simply test again after 10 minutes)

Once you see the ammonia drop DRASTICALLY every 24 hours... then you know you are on your way - but this is still only the first stage, it all "could" take weeks... or even a couple of months.
But stick with it, you may end up hooked for life.... and whats a month or so to ensure the welbeing of your tank ? Its a LOT easier to do it this way than end up chasing a failed aquarium with chemicals, not to mention the soul destroying fish deaths !

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, I agree with rooster, you can just use your judgement and perhaps choose 3 days instead of a week. Pretty soon it'll be dropping faster and you'll want your tests to be more regular. Always note the date, time, temp, test results and comments to yourself in your logbook line if you are keeping one. I have found my logbook to be quite useful and fun now in hindsight. I can look back and see when my fishless cycle turned various corners and I can also see when I bought and added various things to the tank. Its kind of surprising the strange things you want to know later on, at which point the better your notes to yourself were, the more useful they are.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[KatienDavid]

Ok, thanks again everyone. We really do appreciate all your help. We would pretty much be lost without it. It is painfully slow to us but we know in the long run it will be worth it. And when our tank is cycled and ready for fish, we will probably ask some of your advice on what kind of fish would be interesting and good to fit in a 40g. Anyways we will be back in a couple days to tell you if the ammonia dropped anymore and so on.

Thanks,
Katie and David

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, good to be working on your stocking plan during fishless cycling. You can do many searches on TFF if you start early and work at it. You'll want to think about surface swimmers, mid-tank swimmers and bottom feeders and possibly algae eaters etc. You'll want to first make your own attempt to determine the maximum adult size (later the TFF members can help verify/revise that if necessary.. so you can list all the fish vertically in a post and add up the total inches of "fish body." After that it needs to be refined for fish that might be inappropriate for your tank size and then for fish that don't get along with each other. Finally, you'll want to try and be sure certain species are in the appropriate minimal shoal groupings so they won't be constantly thinking they've been separated from their school and bacsically be in shock! Instead, with the minimum shoal size or more, they will relax and show colors and be happy.

Another thing you're going to have to get straight is whether the 40 hex can be treated like a normal rectangular 40g. If it is a very tall tank then unfortunately it is better if it is treated like a smaller tank with respect to fish stocking. Surface area is a factor. A wide shallow tank has more surface area per volume for gas exchange. So great big flat shallow tanks can hold lots more fish than tall narrow ones. Another impact this can have is when there is a power outage. People who depend on water movement via filter flow pumps and/or airpumps and airstones to permit some amount of overstocking can be in a lot more trouble when a power outage comes. On the other hand, understocked tanks can sit there with still water and the fish will still get enough from the surface to go a lot longer during these crises.

If you were to give me the tank measurements I wouldn't be able to advise you per se, I just know its something that might need to be checked out and possibly have some of the other more experienced members give the ok on.

~~waterdrop~~