Acclimating New Fish

[cowgirluntamed]

Ok....so normally I have bought fish from petsmart and 20-30 minutes later I'm home and I float the bag for a bit and then I dump a bit of the bag water into a waste water bucket and add tank water to the bag. I do this four or five times, waiting about five minutes in-between before I then put a net over the bucket to dump the fish into so I can release them into the tank with no bag water.

However, my next purchase will probably be online where the fish will be in the bag longer, creating more waste in it. I was just browsing YouTube videos and found one by kgtropicals and he and a few others say to just float the bag to get the temperature right and then just dump the fish into a net over a bucket and then immediately put the fish in the new tank. They say this is best because the ammonia in the bag is ammonium due to the water being softer for some reason or from something added to it and if you start putting your water in the bag that will then turn the ammonium into ammonia that harms fish obviously. They've been doing it that way for years without problems. Is this correct?? I don't want to harm any fish I purchase online by doing it wrong!

Here is a link to the video I saw.

https/youtu.be/gDRtrxWmxX0

 

[Akasha72]

I actually agree. It's very rare for me to speak of how I aclimate new fish for fear of the backlash but I've been doing it 'my way' for years now and I've never lost a fish this way.
 
Firstly I trust both fish stores where I buy my fish. One is very local - around 10-15 minutes from home depending on traffic. I know they use RO water and the pH is very similar to my tap water. With this store I open the bag, turn down the opening so the bag floats for a few minutes and then I simply turn the bag on it's side and walk away. This allows the fish to calmly leave the bag and enter the tank at their own pace. Some are straight out, others take a little longer and some need a little encouragement but in general I find they come out, swim around, investigate the tank and within about 30 minutes they're coloured back up and accepting food. In fact I find they are generally extreemly hungry. I don't know if this is because the fish store ration food or whether it's a motabilism thing but in general I find newly aquired fish are very hungry.
 
The other fish store has harder water than mine. It's much further away from home and so I take a little more time and I remove as much of the bag water as I can. I get the pH in the bag dropping over about 20 minutes by adding small amounts of my tank water and then use the same process of just turning the bag on it's side and allowing the fish is swim out in it's own time.
 
Now. Please. No bashing for my method. As already stated I don't normally mention it for that reason. It's a method that works for me and I will continue to use it despite what I read.
 
I read an article many years ago that stated that fish take many hours to notice a change in water pH and so drip aclimating is a waste of time. This would seem to fit with what I've seen using my own method

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I'm mostly wondering about if the fish have been in the bag for 24 hours or more. And if it truly is safe to just acclimate the temp only and not the water parameters. I have done the same as you in the past and just acclimated the temp and then turned the bag over to let them come out until I learned that it may not be safe due to pathogens. It's different if you trust your local lfs but most of mine come from petsmart. Lol. Not so safe. I am thinking of getting a couple of super red bristlenoses soon. Then later I want to get fish for my big tank from an online place. So yeah...lol. safer to acclimate by just putting fish straight into the new tank water or should it be done to water parameters as well?

 

[Ch4rlie]

This can be a bit of a hot topic among some keepers.
 
There are various methods and theories about acclimatising fish into your aquarium.
 
But the main sticking points tends to be :
 
1- matching the temperature of the bag water to your tank water, this helps with preventing temperature shock. However, if you bought the fish home within 15 to 30 mins of leaving the store, I find little point in this unless the weather is very cold and the bag has been exposed to cold temperatures.
 
2- Not to add any water from the bag from lfs to your tank. This is an important point, you do not know what the lfs water has been exposed to in terms of various fish disease that may be present in various holding tanks at LFS. I take every precaution not to add any water from the bag to my tank, even to the point where I quickly clean the outer layer of the bag under the tap before floating the bag in my tank.
 
3- drip acclimatising is basically a waste of time imho UNLESS you have wild caught fish or from a LFS from afar, many hours or even days kept in the same bag, meaning different water parameters, then drip aclimatising is a valid method though has to be said that to use this method can take weeks, even months before fish are fully acclimatised to your water parameters.
 
This is not a bash at Akasha in any way, a lot of folks have their own methods and rituals when it comes to transferring fish from the bag to the tank, it's just putting another perspective across about LFS water in the bag.
 
Cowgirluntamed has touched upon a valid point about ammonia buildup in the bag, remember, the bag is sealed when it's transporting fish from the LFS to your home, whether it's just a matter of less than an hour to hours or days, the ammonia buildup has started from the onset and the sealed bag helps to keep this under a sort of limit but upon unsealing the bag, fresh oxygen is then present, this then has an affect on the ammonia present. In other words, the water is rapidly changing inside the bag to the detriment of the fish in that water, so it's sometimes best being the case of putting the fish straight from the bag to the tank via a net or whichever method you use but not putting the bag water into the tank.
 
There is a lot more to this and many more theories and claimed actions that's best, especially if you search online, there will be conflicting advice TBH.
 
This is my theory, it's not based on any hard evidence or concrete proof but it's what common sense dictates to me as well as listening to other experienced and knowledgeable keepers on this subject.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Charlie! I think I understand it a bit better now. It probably would be best for any fish I get shipped in to just be acclimated to the temperature and then dump them in a net and straight to the tank. Sounds like it would be the safest option so get them out of their waste water as fast as possible! Thanks again!

 

[Akasha72]

Thanks Charlie! I think I understand it a bit better now. It probably would be best for any fish I get shipped in to just be acclimated to the temperature and then dump them in a net and straight to the tank. Sounds like it would be the safest option so get them out of their waste water as fast as possible! Thanks again!

 
Agreed on that .... no one wants to keep em swimming round in their own waste for any longer than they have to

 

[Chad]

I don't acclimate my fish all one way or the other. There are some fish that go right into the water when I get home. Others get floated then dunked and some get a slow drip acclimation. There are several factors that go into it so I make the decision on a per fish basis including what species I'm dealing with. 

 

[AbbeysDad]

I used to think that drip acclimation was best for both temperature and water params....I'd put the fish in a small bucket and use air line tubing with a valve do introduce tank water. Then after the water volume had doubled, I'd net them into the tank. Now I never got fish through the mail and it's usually no more than 30 minutes from an LPS. Moving forward, I guess I'll just float for temperature, then dump through a net into a waste bucket and toss 'em right in,

 

[Baccus]

I have often received fish/ shrimp and snails through the mail, and only if I see death or obvious problems do I immediately remove the fish from the arrival bags. Only if there is death do I  place them straight into a tub of new tap water with dechlorinator added at the required amount, I also try to not get any of the water from a bag with dead fish into the tub and leave the dead fish in the bag only removing the live ones. In the tub I usually also run an airstone and leave the fish alone for a couple of hours before then sorting out getting them into their permanent tank. I am lucky in this regard that I don't change my pH/ gH by using RO water, instead I rely on my towns water supply, so the tub of water is not going to be hugely different to the tanks water. Usually any fish etc that I get have been bagged and packaged up for at least 2 days before I receive them.
If everyone looks happy healthy (although skittish after being in the dark for a couple of days and then suddenly theres light) I will float the bags, after floating for a couple of minutes I generally cut (some places seal the bag with metal clips that are impossible to open) the top of the bag off and then peg the bag in such a way that the now open top is allowing a little tank water into the bag. I leave the bag(s) like this for a bit and then generally just upon release of the fish (gently raising the bottom of the bag to encourage the fish out the top if they haven't already made their escape) and at the time of release feed all the other fish in the tank. I find my existing fish often get very interested in new arrivals, so floating the bag helps the existing fish see the new arrivals but not chase or nip at them. Also the new fish get a chance to see out of the bag and start sussing out potential hidey holes they can bolt to if needs be.
The feeding I find distracts the exisiting fish from the new arrivals, allowing the new arrivals to either find somewhere to hide while they assess the situation or to join in the general feeding frenzy taking place.
 
With shrimp its a bit different, they really can suffer temp shock and pH/ gH shock so their acclimatisation is longer, shrimp are also often very hungry upon arrival so I will often give them a tiny bit of food to keep them going through the acclimatisation process.
 
It is worth noting here to that some places are using breathable bags for shipping fish and shrimp, these bags allow oxygen transfer to occur and I guess would also help in some degree with ammonia build up. People have kept ( for their own research/ information purposes) shrimp in a breathable bag sealed in a shipping box for up to a week with no ill effects on the shrimp.
 
I know many people are able to get their hands on imported wild caught fish, and these I believe do need more care taken with their acclimatisation to a tanks parameters.
I often go and catch local native fish, shrimp and snails and these I will set up for a slower acclimatisation to my local town water. The process I found that works for me is to set up a tank (usually a small 20L tank) or tub with an airstone (and if in winter a spare heater), and put the fish/ shrimp/ snails in this tank only with the water they where caught in. I then also set up a large tub of dechlorinated water that will be used to gradually added small amounts of tub water to the tank while removing the same amount of tank water the fish etc are being held in. Generally I try to remove and replace the small amount of water on a 10-15 minute basis. So far this process has worked a dream for fish shrimp and snails that might have been in brackish water or even very soft water compared to my tanks.
While the fish are in the holding tank it is also the perfect time to observe them closely looking for any signs of external parasites,  fungus or other health issues. They can then be treated in the holding tank if needs be. This was especially useful the time I got some wild Pacific Blue Eyes and only when I put them in a holding/ acclimatisation tank was I able to see they had body fungus, which I was then able to treat and cure before adding the fish a week or two later to their future home tank.

 

[Ch4rlie]

I have to say, after some research and speaking to an experienced, knowledgeable keeper that I now consider my last post about getting the fish bag water up to temperature before releasing the fish to the tank is moot.
 
In fact, temperature acclimatising any fish to a tank that has the correct temperature for the specie is a waste of time to be entirely honest. Found that its only at the extreme end of their temperature scale will the fish react. So if the water they are currently in is a little warmer or cooler and the simple act of putting them into appropriate temperature is good.
 
Personally I have seen the affect of fish in too warm waters, when I accidently put in water that was too warm for my tank during a water change is unmistakable, very quickly upon realising my mistake i immediately corrected the temperature by adding in cooler water, the effect on the fish in the tank was pretty much instantaneous with what appeared to be no ill effects afterwards.
 
 
Temperature shock can only occur if the fish is in or is put into water whose temperature is at the lethal end of its acceptable range. So putting into correct water ASAP is the best course of action imho.
 
Am not sure if this applies to shrimps to be honest, the studies have all been with fish species, usually danios. I can provid links for these studies if anyone wishes btw.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

That's true about the temperature. Never even really thought of it that way. My worry is having slightly harder water than what the fish would be in. (My ph is 8.2). And isn't it that the ammonia is ammonium only up to 6.5 or something? Then it changes to ammonia? I can't remember now....lol. I wouldn't want the stock to be shocked suddenly having their non-lethal ammonium turning into ammonia. This is why I'm asking....I'm hoping to get a couple of new bristlenoses in a couple of weeks. Then later when my big tank is up and running start to get fish from a site online so I don't have to go through petsmart. It's also less expensive even with shipping! I think the bristlenoses would be shipped in a breather bag...can these even be floated? I can't remember what they said about those or not.

 

[Akasha72]

That's true about the temperature. Never even really thought of it that way. My worry is having slightly harder water than what the fish would be in. (My ph is 8.2). And isn't it that the ammonia is ammonium only up to 6.5 or something? Then it changes to ammonia? I can't remember now....lol. I wouldn't want the stock to be shocked suddenly having their non-lethal ammonium turning into ammonia. This is why I'm asking....I'm hoping to get a couple of new bristlenoses in a couple of weeks. Then later when my big tank is up and running start to get fish from a site online so I don't have to go through petsmart. It's also less expensive even with shipping! I think the bristlenoses would be shipped in a breather bag...can these even be floated? I can't remember what they said about those or not.

 
To be honest, with a pH so high before getting another BN I would look to ways of lowering that value ... a BN is gonna struggle in a pH that high. It's way out of their comfort zone. Seriouslyfish.com has them at pH 5.5-7.5
 
http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ancistrus-cf-cirrhosus/
 
I'm only saying because I know how upset you were when you lost spots. I'd hate to see you so upset again

 

[Baccus]

I think breather bags can be floated, but if they are sending any sort of catfish in breather bags I hope they double bag the fish, catfish can have a nasty habit of puncturing bags with thier spines.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I'm not sure if they will be double bagged or not. That part didn't say. Hopefully so!

I'm just not sure if I can get it to lower. I've also got my tetras in this water as well and so far so good. Spots' condition may have just been a fluke. I'm not saying the water didn't play a roll, she was perfectly fine and thriving before that happened. I'd at least like to try them one more time. I haven't started the indian almond leaf experiment yet but I will soon. I'm just thinking that it probably won't do anything to my water since the driftwood never once did. Other than that my only other option is missing in distilled water. I may get a gallon of that in a couple of weeks. I'm just afraid if I do anything that the water won't be stable. And I want to do a 50-55 gallon soon as I get it built! That's a lot of distilled water for possible changes!! Lol.

 

[Ch4rlie]

The trouble with trying to get pH lower is it is hard work and you got to know what you are doing.
 
You cannot alter pH without alter the gH and kH levels, so lowering pH will make the water softer so your other species of fish who prefer harder water may not like this.
 
IAL and lots of bog wood do helps to lower the ph somewhat.
 
But it is doable, need lots of reseach and knowledge first.
 
 
As for the ammonium /ammonia in fish bags during transit.
 
 
This is quoted from an email sent to me from a knowledgable, experienced keeper when i asked a while ago about fish in transit and acclimatisation :
 
"When the fish go into the bag the water is clean and the parameters are their natural ones- i.e. there is no ammonia etc. There is a normal level of oxygen and CO2. As the bag and fish begin to travel things change. As the fish breath they are doing several things. They are using up oxygen, they are creating CO2 and they are exhaling ammonia. That is why when we ship fish we insure at least 50% of what is in the bag is air. In some cases pure O is added.
 
So what happens in transit? As the CO2 level rises, it creates acid in the water which lowers the pH of the bag water. This happens even as ammonia is building up. But as we know, the lower the pH of the water, the less of the ammonia that will be in the toxic NH3 form. By the time the bag arrives the pH is clearly lower and the Oxygen has mostly used up. What happens when that bag is opened?
 
Oxygen rushes in and CO2 out gasses, This happens pretty fast and the result is the pH rise quickly and that changes the balance of ammonia between NH3 and NH4. The higher the pH, the more toxic any level of total ammonia becomes. The very act of opening the bag makes the ammonia toxic where a minute before it was not. Depending on the time in transit and bio-load in the bag, basically harmless water turns toxic fast. So while one is trying to acclimate the fish gradually according to the urban myths on so many fish site, what one is doing is making the water more toxic and forcing the fish to be in it for longer.
 
This is the hard part for most hobbyists to understand. How fast the water chemistry turns bad. Bear in mind how little water is involved and how fast this means change can happen and how toxic they can get. This is not often an issue when you go to the store, they over bag in terms of how much water goes in and then the fish is only in the bag a short time relative to shipping them."
 
 
Hope that helps