Absolute Disaster.

[The Taffy Apple]

Good evening all, as the thread topic may suggest, i am one chessed off, confused Taffy Apple !

Done a water test on my 30L tank at 1900 tonight (2 hours ago) and all parameters were fine...'0' Ammonia and NitrIte, 10ppm NitrAte and 7.0 PH (down from 7.4).... watched them for 30 mins whilst we ate and they portrayed all the actions that they have since i bought them (4 days ago).

This is my first tank, a 30L plantless 'Aqua One' and filter. I recently completed a full household ammonia fishless cycle.

Anyway, went back downstairs not even 2 hours later, and they're both lifeless... caught up amongst my false plants, extremely dead! The 'common grey' shrimp i have in there seems fine, continuing to scurry along the bottom, eating and hiding.

As you can imagine, i am more confused that angry. I thought i had done it all correct. I have been testing 2/3 times a day since i introduced the fish and not registered anything of significance (PH has dropped a touch, NitrAte went from 5 to 10 over 2 days).

Now, if there wasn't any life in my tank (think of poor old shrimpy!) i would try cycling for a few days again, see what that would do...but unfortunately, due to the shrimp in there i don't think this would be a good idea.

So i'm stuck. If anyone has ANY advice/opinions/observations..please could you let me know?


Appreciated. And back to square 1.
Terry.

PS; Would i be correct in saying that i remember reading somewhere that guppys do not like a brand new tank?

 

[Uriel]

I know that guppies weren't very suitable for my water in abergavenny as it very soft 2.6kh and they are reccomended for alkaline, Hard water . Although i'm not sure if this would cause there death. Is the heat ok and was it possible they somehow got caught in plastic plants ?

 

[The Taffy Apple]

I know that guppies weren't very suitable for my water in abergavenny as it very soft 2.6kh and they are reccomended for hard water. Although i'm not sure if this would cause there death. Is the heat ok and was it possible they somehow got caught in plastic plants ?

Thank you for the speedy reply Uriel, appreciated.

There's not much chance they got caught up, i've been watching them over and over again for days now... but what did concern me earlier this evening was that one of them would swim under the surface in the current of my filter outlet whilst the other slowly swam at the bottom of the tank, then they would change after about 15 mins. Strange.

As for the PH, all i can verify is that it is 7.0 at the moment. I do not have the KH kit (unless it is in my API master test kit and i'm doing it wrong. lol).

Heater has been at 27 degress since the morning i introduced them, down from 32 whilst i was cycling.

Terry.

 

[elisew]

Sorry to hear your guppies died

The stocking I had in my first decent sized tank (180L) included some guppies and I have to say throughout the following year the guppies were probably the most sensitive and I lost a lot of them.
I`m not sure if they`re generally a more sensitive fish or if it was just me but since I stopped keeping them I`ve been told by my lfs that the breeding of the most common livebearers i.e guppies, platys, mollies etc are is producing some pretty weak stock nowadays

I know it`s easy for someone else to say but don`t feel too bad, put it down to experience and carry on. Sometimes there`s no explanation for fish deaths and you could drive yourself mad if you try to make sense of it

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Great advice that elisew, thank you..!

Once i work out my next step, i am going to research very hard what ones to get... but as that poor little shrimp is in there, i'm stuck for conclusions..

Can anyone suggest what i should do to stop these good bacteria dying off..?

 

[KittyKat]

The Taffy Apple: if ammonia is still 0, then it is obviously not a cycling issue.

I also would never recommend guppies to a beginner nowadays. They are extremely fragile fish, if farmed.. the only way to keep them is to find a good breeder who outcrosses them regularly and buy your stock from them. A school of espei rasboras would be much more suitable.

 

[neo83]

The Taffy Apple

Sorry about the guppies. I had the same issue with one guppy out of five i got for my tank a couple of months ago. It died in a couple of days, although the remaining four are still alive and well. I hesitate to name the fish as when i name them i get too attached to them (it's not like i dont get attached to them if i dont, but it's a good bluff to myself), but this guppy used to constantly swim in the current. The others used to join him occasionally, but this one occasionally used to get out of the current. I was very worried about it for those two days and my tank stats were fine as your readings. i even named him 'hamster' because of his constant swimming. oh well

Anyways, the final assumption and the advice i got from other forum members is that, he must have been stressed coming into a new tank and also they are heavily bred, they can be poor stock sometimes.

Good luck with your other fish.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

As expected, great advice, many thanks.

I remember reading something concerning heavy breeding and poor quality of guppys in general, i shant name the store where i bought them from as i'll probably get lynched on here..but at the time i needed fish and these two stood out. I was very thorough in asking questions to the 'salesperson' on the general upkeep of these two fish, but there was obviously some sort of issue there even before i got them home (?).

Just completed a water test, all specs are as expected and the shrimp is doing what shrimps do..

Would anyone advise me to get another couple of fish in there (different breed, different store) before my beneficial bacteria die off? I'm presuming the one shrimp wont create enough mess to feed what bacteria i have grown. I only ask this question as i will be visiting a very good aquatic store over the weekend (anyone from South West Wales- Maidenhead aquatics, Clydach) and it would be the ideal chance to purchase more fish or take with me some concrete information and i can test the lads that work over there (but i've heard nothing but good recommendations about their knowledge!).

Anyway, all appreciated,
Terry.

 

[KittyKat]

Keep feeding with flake food as if there were fish there. You will need to do a decent clean before adding any fish though, if you do that.

I would strongly recommend 6 espei rasboras (not harlequin, make sure to know the difference) or 6 ember tetras.

 

[waterdrop]

As with the others, sorry to hear of your loss. It is always unfortunate when one of our members takes the time to fully cycle a tank but then loses fish.

Transport is a life and death situation for fish and nearly all the fish we deal with are creatures married quite closely to their environment who have not necessarily evolved the mechanisms to handle environmental changes beyond a small amount. Our tools to understand what constitutes changes are crude at best. The coping mechanism of many of these fish, guppies included, are very large offspring numbers rather than individual hardiness.

However, a couple of thoughts: When we talk about the livebearers liking a high mineral content, it does mean that harder water, probably resulting in a pH more up in the 8 range is a significant help to having them thrive or withstand hardship. Likewise, your temperature, if anything, may have been rather high for the guppies, although I'd certainly defer to OM47 or any of the other more experienced livebearer people we have. Perhaps 23C might have helped a bit, after a long drip acclimation? But even more than that, it may be that your water is better suited to tetras, rasboras and other fish different from livebearers, at least in some cases.

Definately have a look at the any of the smaller rasboras, as mentioned above. Also, smaller tetras (other than neons, which would like your tank to be 6 months old) of which there are many, many types. In a tank of your size though I'd look toward the more torpedo shaped tetras rather than the vertical pancake shape, and always be checking the eventual adult size and thinking about your 8" or so stocking limitations (more than 8" with very small fish, but remember that understocking helps your overall success.)

Personally, with a common shrimp, if I did not find the correct first introduction fish on the weekend trip, I'd be trying to see if my LFS would take him for me.. or I might consider a really large container with his tank water supplying it and then daily water changes to the jar while I fed the bacteria with ammonia. This would get me through the LFS trips looking for the right tetras or cherry barbs or whatever.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Uriel]

Which Maidenhead aquatics are you going to Cwmbran or Cardiff. If your in clydach chances are you water is similar or the same as mine(inbetween raglan and abergavenny). My water is very soft and is ideal for tetra's if thats any help. Although again they are quite a fragile fish.

Cardiff was doing a sale on stock as they are moving shop 10% off i think. There moving on the 13th though so it's probably in complete disarray at the moment.

 

[The Taffy Apple]

Thanks for the replies, some great advice there!


There has been absolutely no chance whatsoever to get fish from a reputable stockists over the weekend, and it certainly wont be easier now monday has arrived! But what i shall do (Kitty Kat ) is continue to add flakes of food as if i were feeding normally, this in the hope that i keep hold of my benefictial bacteria.

I shall keep daily checks on my parameters and look forward to reading your advice at the next step. (gulp!).

Terry.

 

[Mogs26]

I am not very knowledgeable on this, as, although I have had my tank for about 3 years, I have had a similar experience with guppies and neons-they never last! One fish that has lasted throughout all my mishaps, including a faulty thermostat in my tank, which overheated the fish, and caused lots of losses, is my harlequin rasboro. He/she is the last remaining one of 4, but has been in the tank almost since the start-I am going to get him some pals when I finish my fishless cycle, as they are a very pretty fish. I also have some golden barbs, who seem pretty hardy-although they eat like horses!
Good luck with finding some good fish!
Carole x

 

[KittyKat]

But what i shall do (Kitty Kat ) is continue to add flakes of food as if i were feeding normally, this in the hope that i keep hold of my benefictial bacteria.

Don't forget to do a proper gravel vacuum before adding any fish.. the shrimp will eat some of the flakes, but most will rot (and produce ammonia).

One fish that has lasted throughout all my mishaps, including a faulty thermostat in my tank, which overheated the fish, and caused lots of losses, is my harlequin rasboro. He/she is the last remaining one of 4, but has been in the tank almost since the start-I am going to get him some pals when I finish my fishless cycle, as they are a very pretty fish.

Harlequins are a bit big for this tank, which is why espei rasboras (who look almost identical) would work much better An even better choice would be ember tetras as those stay even smaller!

Unfortunately, all the really cool microrasboras are not easily available in UK..

 

[Mogs26]

Harlequins are a bit big for this tank, which is why espei rasboras (who look almost identical) would work much better An even better choice would be ember tetras as those stay even smaller!

mmm I wonder if that's what mine are then, as I have them in my old 35l biube-the are only about 1" long in the body, but the lfs said they were harlequins edit: Nope, I just looked them up and espeis are copper coloured, mine are silvery, but the advised tank size is the same for both
Carole x