A question--

[fishmom]

I just want to get an idea of probabilities when we get another Betta--Are the VT's more likely to get fin/tail rot than say CT's or DT's , etc.?

 

[Bettabelieveit]

I would say no, they all have the same possibilities depending on water cleanliness, and the actual fish itself, some can be fine for forever, and some get fin rot for almost seemingly no reason at all.

 

[Kiarra]

Longer-finned fish are more prone to it than a Plakat. But I'm not sure how a VT would compare to any of the other longer-tailed fish.

 

[Synirr]

A lot of veiltails you find in pet stores are pretty inbred, so because of this they are sometimes more susceptible to disease. The key is the inbreeding though, not the tail type in and of itself.

 

[Kiarra]

That's rather what I figured, but I couldn't find the words to say it. But I wholeheartedly agree with the matter, except for as I stated above. I have noticed that, within my own fish, even the healthy, not particularly inbred fish that have long tails (like Deltas or Crowns) are more prone to it than my Plakats. Come to think of it, I've NEVER had a Plakat with finrot, even when kept in the exact same conditions as a longer-finned fish. Even the one that came from a really crappy pet store never got finrot.

 

[fishmom]

Apollo seemed to get it right away when I brought him from the fish place and he was kept in a clean tank too. He is getting worse and he will probably not get better. I am probably going to go with a shorter tailed Betta next time though--our goldfish Speedy has been in some really dirty water and he has only gotten slow and no appetite--never fin or tail rot. He has short fins. So I was wondering if the tail and fin lenght have been a factor.

Thanks for your replies!!!

 

[Synirr]

Yeah, I've noticed that myself Kiarra... I've also never had a female get finrot. My theory is that circulation is lower at the ends of their long fins, so that makes them more susceptible to infection. I know this is true for piercings at least... areas with poor circulation, like belly buttons (which are actually scar tissue from the umbilical cord) heal slowly and are prone to infection, while areas with extremely high circulation, like the tongue, heal within two weeks or less.

 

[SRC]

Well I don't see how people categorize fish as having a low immune system due to being "inbred". When most people inbreed their fish constantly....I mean do you not notice all fish that come with a female..that it's their spawn sister? So that isn't really a logical conclustion to me. Otherwise all fish would be weakly.

I think VT's get fin rot more often because of how they were treated early in their lives. I think living in less then sutable conditions before finding a lovign home leads them into a low immune system, if anything does it.

I will agree I also think the long fins help create a problem in leading to the fin rot.

I also think color has alot to do with it as well. I have all colors of fsh, and all tail types. I have 8 fish in a single tank...and out of those 8 fish...I have 2 that get fin rot constantly (a Butterfly and a Marble)...the others...do not.

White fins IMO seems to contract fin rot more easily then darker colored fins...which IMO leaves Butterfly's and Marble's highly suseptable to fin rot...or atleast that's how it seems to happen around here.

 

[Synirr]

Well I don't see how people categorize fish as having a low immune system due to being "inbred". When most people inbreed their fish constantly....I mean do you not notice all fish that come with a female..that it's their spawn sister? So that isn't really a logical conclustion to me. Otherwise all fish would be weakly.

I also think color has alot to do with it as well. I have all colors of fsh, and all tail types. I have 8 fish in a single tank...and out of those 8 fish...I have 2 that get fin rot constantly (a Butterfly and a Marble)...the others...do not.

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Inbreeding, if done without careful consideration, leads to inbreeding depression. When a line of fish are being bred for specific traits, you're right that it generally does involve a lot of inbreeding, but responsible breeders select the healthiest fish with the desired trait to breed together. They also outcross after a number of generations to make sure that new traits are being introduced into the line to prevent inbreeding depression. Those breeders who are simply mass-producing fish for sale in pet shops generally don't go to all that trouble, and thus the genetic health of their lines gradually goes downhill. Even when you are careful about it, inbreeding can lead to an increased risk of health problems, so obviously it is even worse if no such considerations are taken. Think of purebred dogs... they have been line bred for generations, and the vast majority of them have more health problems than your average mutt. Arthritis and hip dysplasia in large breeds and sinus deformity/cleft pallet problems in pug-nosed breeds, for example.

I'm not sure how much colour has to do with it since I haven't observed any such pattern in my fish, but I'm willing to bet that linebreeding has a lot to do with that as well, being that marbling, the butterfly pattern, and many other light colour varieties are recessive. As such, inbreeding is the most reliable way to keep the trait from spawn to spawn.

 

[ladyhawke]

"Inbreeding, if done without careful consideration, leads to inbreeding depression. When a line of fish are being bred for specific traits, you're right that it generally does involve a lot of inbreeding, but responsible breeders select the healthiest fish with the desired trait to breed together. They also outcross after a number of generations to make sure that new traits are being introduced into the line to prevent inbreeding depression. Those breeders who are simply mass-producing fish for sale in pet shops generally don't go to all that trouble, and thus the genetic health of their lines gradually goes downhill. Even when you are careful about it, inbreeding can lead to an increased risk of health problems, so obviously it is even worse if no such considerations are taken. Think of purebred dogs... they have been line bred for generations, and the vast majority of them have more health problems than your average mutt. Arthritis and hip dysplasia in large breeds and sinus deformity/cleft pallet problems in pug-nosed breeds, for example.

I'm not sure how much colour has to do with it since I haven't observed any such pattern in my fish, but I'm willing to bet that linebreeding has a lot to do with that as well, being that marbling, the butterfly pattern, and many other light colour varieties are recessive. As such, inbreeding is the most reliable way to keep the trait from spawn to spawn. "




I agree with you Synirr. I am not a betta breeder but I have spent years breeding show dogs and have studied pedigrees and hereditary traits. I have seen first hand the results of too much inbreeding as opposed to line breeding and utilizing outcrosses properly.