A Fish Tank For Children, Some Advice Please...

[upsy daisy]

Thanks for the tips, I will be adding my log and statistics into my first post! I am just beginning to undersatnd what it is I am supposed to do, at first all the information seems so complex and confusing. I don't really have that much time to sit and read all the posts, unfortunately... we have three children, a baby, and two boys (one of whom has a form of autism). Every day is a challenge I can only have a read when kids are asleep. Still I am determined to do this, my son with autism really will benefit from an aquarium.

I wasn't aware I had to get the reading of ammonia that high, is it to encourage to grow the critters that take care of it? If the ammonia read wasn't as high, would it take much longer to get the tank ready for fish?
So basically, if I chose to add ammonia at 10 am, then I would have to test the water that night at 10, yes?

When you add ammonia are you then waiting about 20min and re-testing to see what concentration you accomplished in the tank? You want the concentration to be 4 to 5ppm.


Do I have to do this every time or just the very first time?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, Fishless Cycling is encouraging the correct two species of autotrophic bacteria to grow inside the filter. There are many species of bacteria in the tank and by creating the correct conditions we raise our chances that the correct two will be dominant.

The very first time you successfully raise the ammonia concentration to 4-5ppm (just try to match the 4ppm color on the API card) it may take many days before that first dose drops down to measure as zero ppm. In fact we've had cases of it taking two weeks and even 3 weeks in a couple of cases. But after it finally drops to zero ppm, it will probably begin dropping back to zero ppm very rapidly even though you will raise it back to 4ppm at your add-hour each time it has dropped to zero in the previous 24 hours. You want to be sure to record how many milliliters of ammonia it seemed to take to get you successfully at 4ppm, because it could be a while before you get to do it again!

I understand the family limitations (have a family of my own and have a best friend autism expert.) The members here are great so hopefully any time you have questions one of us will pipe up with some suggestions. I personally found the Nitrogen Cycle to be quite fascinating and the hands-on struggle of fishless cycling to be a really good way to slowly but surely get in touch with this core technology of the hobby!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[upsy daisy]

It seems I have made a mistake already.. I let the aquarium run the first two days adding a few drops of ammonia already, but I never took any readings.
Last night I added 2.7 ml of ammonia, having first tested the water, but didn't do a test straight after, since I figured that I only have to test tonight. What do I do now?

If the best time to test the water for me is 10 pm, should I wait till tomorrow 10 am to add ammonia to get the reading of 4-5 and then test the water again in the evening?

Actually I just tested the ammonia level and it is around 4+.

 

[coldcazzie]

Around 4 is fine for the moment.

My brother is autistic and he loves my fishtank don't worry too much about everything at this early stage - it will come together and towards the end you'll be doing the tests with your eyes shut! I had an odd start to my first fishless cycle too, trust me - you'll get there!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi upsy-daisy,

You've made me think a little about how we describe the process of "testing" and it occurs to me that we may talk about it in a bit of a shorthand that may not always give enough details to a newcomer.

Normal tank testing just means taking some tank water into the testtubes and perfoming the various tests we plan to do (ammonia, nitrite(NO2), pH etc.) and then recording the results in our notebook and here in our first post.

But when we "do something" to the tank (for example add ammonia or do perform a water change) we usually wait some number of minutes before doing the normal testing described above. We all say different numbers of minutes but generally its 20 minutes or so (in the range of 15 to 30) to allow the filter to circulate the water and get things more well mixed.

So if 10pm seems to be a good hour for you to "do the aquarium stuff" then just test for ammonia at 10pm, wait 20min and at 10:20pm test ammonia again (to see if it got to 4ppm) and also go ahead and also record a pH test at that time. In the future you will be so sure of the right number of millimeters to add to get 4ppm that you can just take a set of tests and then add ammonia (you add more ammonia only if ammonia dropped to zero ppm in the previous 24 hours) without bothering to test again in 20 min. (Weeks from now you will also start testing at 10am, but for now, once a day at 10pm is just fine.) Did that help?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[crazychris]

The temperature is fine as it is, it will encourage faster bacteria division and therefore the filter will be populated faster.

So are you suggesting she leaves it at 86 once cycled and ready to add fish? It's too high for a general beginners community tank. I've never seen 86 recommended. 78 is ideal but hey I've only kept fish 35 years so what do I know?

 

[Truck]

No, I am suggesting it stays at that until the cycle is over, as to whether it is to be lowered or not depends on the species kept.

 

[crazychris]

No, I am suggesting it stays at that until the cycle is over, as to whether it is to be lowered or not depends on the species kept.

Okay. I know some fish like clown loach, cichlids etc do well in the mid-80's.

 

[upsy daisy]

Crazychris and truck, please don't argue! I understand what each of you are trying to say! Thank you for your encouragement coldcazzie and waterdrop, for the advice!

What I am wondering is, what do you think about statistics from the test results? Do they seem to be developing like they should or is something not looking right? Everything in my chart seems to be going downwards.

I really feel lost at this point.. When is it that I have to do a water change?

Another question, I have seen some people reporting that they add baking soda to the water. Why is that?

 

[waterdrop]

Hi upsy_daisy,

Your stats look fine. There's not much to worry about as a fishless cycle is getting started. As long as you've got some ammonia in there for the few A-Bacs (ammonia oxidizing bacteria - the first type that will convert ammonia to nitrite) then its just a matter of waiting for both these and the N-Bacs as both species are very slow growers.

The reason we sometimes prescribe baking soda is that by raising the carbonate hardness of the water, the pH will be raised and we can get it closer to the 8.0 to 8.4 that is the optimal range for fastest growth of these two species. In fact, in my judgement, it wouldn't hurt for you to go ahead and dose one tablespoon into your tank (make sure its just one tablespoon and that its kitchen baking soda, not baking powder.) Baking soda is something we use during fishless cycling (not with fish as it can move the pH too quickly for them) because it will "go out with the bathwater" after fishless cycling is over.

The reason that a nitrogen cycle pushes the pH downwards is that the final product, Nitrate(NO3), has a small nitric acid component which can't always be neutralized by tanks that have not enough "buffering capacity" (stuff that binds with the acid to neutralize it, like baking soda.) The reason we watch for pH drops is that our beneficial bacteria will stall or stop carrying out the nitrogen cycle if there is a fairly quick drop down in the 6.2 to 6.0 range (not to mention that the cycle gets slower as pH goes down from 8 to 6 in general.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[upsy daisy]

I really don't know how to thank you! I was wondering how come a lot of others had such a high pH! I added a tablespoon of bicarbonate of soda, will see tonight how it has affected the water!

 

[waterdrop]

There may be times in the future of your fishless cycle where we will recommend that you do a large water change. If you do that you will have to remember that not only will you have to recharge your ammonia afterward but now also your baking soda, possibly. Sometimes I think baking soda "hangs out" better through water changes, so you might lighten up the tablespoon progressively in future recharges.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[upsy daisy]

Ok, so after 1 tablespoon of bicarbonate tested the water tonight and the results for pH haven't altered much, does that mean I should add more?
Results: pH 7.4-7.5, ammonia 1.8, nitrite 0, nitrate 1-2.

 

[waterdrop]

No, lets give it a little more time --WD

 

[upsy daisy]

Day 7 pH 7.5, ammonia 1.3, nitrite 0, nitrate 1-2
Day 8 pH 7.4, ammonia 0.9, nitrite 0, nitrate 0

So, when ammonia drops to 0 I add more of it, yes?