A Fish Tank For Children, Some Advice Please...

[upsy daisy]

Hi,
I am new at this, so please be gentle...

We got our children a 55l fish tank and now are trying to figure out how to go about this fishless cycle business! Heater is on about 30C, gravel at about 8 cm, airstone is bubbling away, just switched off the lights as I read it may encourage algae (is this right?). The power filter that came with the tank has a sponge inside, is this a good filter material?

Do you have any advice on how many drops of ammonia should we be putting inside now? Should I add a few flakes of fish food for good measure or is this unnecessary?

How about plants? If we wanted some live ones (only a few), does it mean we need some sort of CO2 attachment? Any recommendations for plant food?

Can you recommend any hardy tropical fish for a small tank like this? Initially we planned on getting some neon tetras, are they easy to look after or are they not for a beginner?

TIA!



54 litre fishtank, sponge powerfilter, airstone on, gravel 8 cm,
current water temperature 28-29 C (85-86 F)

Regular tap water:
pH 7.1, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-5


API Master Test Kit
added about 2.7 ml of ammonia
pm 15/3/10 pH 7.6, ammonia 4-5
pm 16/3/10 pH 7.5, ammonia 3, nitrite 1, nitrate 4-5
pm 17/03/10 pH 7.4, ammonia 3, nitrite 0.8, nitrate 4
pm 18/03/10 pH 7.5, ammonia 3, nitrite 0.6-0.5, nitrate 2-3
pm 19/03/10 pH 7.4-7.5 ammonia 1.9 nitrite 0.5, nitrate 2
added 1 tablespoon of bicarbonate of soda
pm 20/03/10 pH 7.4-7.5, ammonia 1.8, nitrite 0, nitrate 1-2
pm 21/03/10 pH 7.5, ammonia 1.3, nitrite 0, nitrate 1-2
pm day 8 pH 7.4, ammonia 0.9, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
pm day 9 pH 7.5, ammonia 0.6, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
pm day 10 pH 7.5, ammonia 0.7, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
pm day 11 didn't test
am day 12 ammonia 0.8, nitrite 0, nitrate 1
added clean water, cleaned filter sponge, messed with gravel (scooped some off)
pm day 12 pH 7.5, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate 1
day 13 no test
pm day 14 pH 7.5, ammonia 0.1, nitrite 0, nitrate 1
pm day 15 pH 8.1, ammonia 0.4, nitrite 0, nitrate 1
(not sure previous pH readings were correct now..)
pm day 16, pH 8.1, ammonia 0.1, nitrite 0,nitrate 1

time lapse of about two weeks
readings unrecorded
ammonia reading staying the same at 0.1 - 0
all other readings same, as well

8 apr. pm pH 8.2, ammonia almost 0?, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-1 (am I misreading?)
10 apr. pm pH 8.3, ammonia almost 0?, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-1
did a water change
11 apr. pm pH about 8.0, ammonia 0.1 ?, nitrite 0, nitrate about 1

12/04 am added 2.5 ml ammonia and few flakes fish food

12/04 pm pH 8.2, ammonia 4, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-1 (?)
13/04 pm pH 8.2, ammonia 3-4, nitrite 0.1?, nitrate 0-1?
14/04 pm pH 8.0?, ammonia 2?, nitrite 0.25?, nitrate 0-1
15/04 pm pH 8.0, ammonia 1.5, nitrite 0.50
16/04 pm pH 7.9?, ammonia 0.9, nitrite 0.50, nitrate 0-1
17/04 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0.50
18/04 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 0?, nitrite 0.1, nitrate 0-1
19/04 no test
20/04 am ammonia 0, nitrite 0 again

added 2.5 ml ammonia + a few flakes fishy food

20/04 pm ammonia 3
21/04 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 1.5, nitrite 0, nitrate about 0
22/04 pm same results again

did a 40% water change, cleaned off dreaded algae off tubing and fake plants and out filter sponge
23/04 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 1, nitrite 0.1
24/04 pm --just realised that "algae" I cleaned off tubing was actually some sort of fungus
pH 7.9, ammonia 0.5, nitrite 0.2, nitrate 3
25/04 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0.5, nitrate 3-4
26/04 pm pH 7.8, ammonia 0, nitrite 0.1 nitrate 0
27/04 am ammonia tested at 0

added 2.5 ml ammonia + a few flakes fish food
and little later ammonia was at 4
27/04 pm pH 7.8, ammonia 4, nitrite 0+, nitrate 0
28/04 didn't test
29/04 am pH 7.8, ammonia 1.6, nitrite 0, nitrate 1

changed powerfilter, as the generic brand filter sadly terminally ill

30/04 pm pH 7.8, ammonia 1, nitrite 0
01/05 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 1, nitrite 0
02/05 pm pH 8.3, ammonia 1, nitrite 0, nitrate 0
03/05 pm pH 8, ammonia 1, nitrite 0
04/05 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 0.9, nitrite 0
05/05 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 0.5, nitrite 0
06/05 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0
07/05 pm PH 7.9, ammonia 0, nitrite 0

08/05 am added 2.5 ml ammonia
08/05 pm ammonia about 4
09/05 pm ammonia 4-3, everything else unchanged
10/05 pm pH 8, ammonia 4, nitrite 0
11/05 pm pH 8, ammonia 3, nitrite 0
12/05 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 3, nitrite 0
13/05 untested
14/05 am pH ? 7.8 ammonia 3-2, nitrites 0
15/05 pm pH 7.9, ammonia 2, nitrites 0
17/05 am pH 7.9, ammonia 2, nitrites 0
19/05 am ammonia 2, nitrite 0
20/05 am ammonia 2, nitrite 0
28/05 pm pH 7.8, ammonia still at 2, nitrite 0

Did a water change + general cleanaround
tested again same evening pH 7.3 - 7.4, ammonia almost 0.5

30/05 added 2 albino glowlight tetras and 2 glowlight tetras
30/05 pm pH 8, ammonia 0-0.25, nitrite 0, nitrate 2-5
waterchange
ammonia 0, nitrate around 2-4

 

[tom130691]

top of the page there is a calculator has amonnia doses ect on there

 

[waterdrop]

Hi UpsyDaisy and welcome to the beginners section!

Sponge is an excellent biomedia. How did you go about finding your ammonia? Do you think you have the right type? What type of liquid-reagent based test kit do you have?

You do not need to go the CO2 (high-tech approach) to have plants. The other approach is "low-light" technique and for that you need light at 1 to 1.5 watts/USgallon and possibly a little liquid carbon and general fertilizer. The choices of plants also need to be low-light plants, like anubias, java ferns, java moss and others.

Fishless cycling can sometimes take two months (although sometimes its faster) so you probably have some time to work on figuring out the fish. Neon/Cardinal tetras are indeed fine for beginners but the complication is that you need to wait about 6 months to introduce them from the time the tank is new. The also need to be in a minimal shoal of 6 or 8. But since they are not a big bioload you could have other fish and still plan to do this (I did this and can highly recommend it - they are great fish.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[upsy daisy]

Thank you waterdrop for the nice welcome! Ammonia wasn't easy to find, but finally we managed! They tend to look at you as a kind of a weirdo, when you inquire for ammonia, one assistant even asked: "what kind of emmollient, exactly?" It's a Boots brand and the listed ingredients are: ammonia solution 9.5% and E.C. No. 215-647-6, I hope it's ok?

Thank you for your advice on plants! I will need to figure this wattage thing out since the lamp came attached to the lid already and I realy don't know what strength it is. I asked this question at the local fish shop, but as I had been warned not to trust advice local pet shops give, I was sceptical about their answer!

May I ask, why is it that you have to wait so long to introduce tetras? Are they so particular about the bio-environment?
What "beginners" fish in your opinion go well with neon tetras? Since tetras are so small I worry other fish might want them for dinner!


I am getting so excited about this fishtank!! Thank you waterdop and tom!

 

[crazychris]

Hi. Your temperature at 86 deg. is too high for most community tropical fish. You need to turn down the thermostat, knob on the top of the heater, to about 78deg.

 

[Truck]

The temperature is fine as it is, it will encourage faster bacteria division and therefore the filter will be populated faster.

Regarding neon tetras; they're sensitive fish and any sudden shifts in water parameters can and will kill them, that's why we recommend leaving it 6 months as it gives your tank time to become properly established, and the risk of fluctuations is lower.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, everything Truck says up there is correct and I'd like to add that the truth is, we don't -know- why the 6 month thing is. There are some things that gradually just become an "observed" thing among the members/hobbyists but haven't necessarily been adequately explained. Heavens knows, as hobbyists we all like to pretend at being quasi-scientists and we'd love to have a good technical sounding answer, but we just don't know what it is.

The commonly kept fish in the hobby are of course a tiny fraction of the smaller fish out there in the world. Many, many fish are nearly impossible to keep alive in captivity, so as little trouble as we have with those little neons actually puts them closer to the side of our popular hardy ones than to the large numbers of species we never/rarely see because they don't make it in captivity.

Another related aspect of neon/cardinal sensitivity is that they often don't make it through transport very well. We often recommend buying maybe 2 more fish than the goal, in anticipation that 1 or 2 may not make it. This is more readily done with these small fish as they don't represent much additional bioload on your filter if they -do- all make it alive. I believe I mentioned the minimum shoal recommendation for them earlier.

Because your tank is a nice sized 55L/15G rather than a small 38L or something, another shoal you might consider are the Rasbora Heteromorpha (often called harlequins here on TFF.) These do get larger, so their min shoal would take up a significant amount of your total stocking allowance but they are among the most hardy of choices to be in the very first stocking of the tank. As even larger fish, in fewer numbers, Honey Gouramis, male platies or male swordtails might also be considered.

The process of figuring out your stocking takes a long time but is a great activity to be actively engaged in throughout the fishless cycling weeks, so you are on the right track. Make any number of LFS visits during this time and always do your homework there including the following: carefully observe and check out any fish that we mention in the thread (like the ones I've just mentioned) to see how you like them and if they seem to be available and as a separate activity, have a tiny notebook to jot down names of fish that you do like so that you can check them out with the members. The LFS is a hazardous place for beginners, in my opinion - only about 1/5 or less of the species there are appropriate for them.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[upsy daisy]

Regarding this fishless cycle.. it has been a couple of days now since the tank has been "fermenting" away and it's starting to get awfully cloudy. Does the water clear upon its own eventually or are we supposed to do a water change before putting the fish in?

Regarding the test kit, we have purchased the test kit that comes with lots of bottles and test tubes, but to be perfectly honest I haven't tested the water yet. Will have to do when all the kids are asleep!

Thanks again waterdrop for your advice and tips!

 

[nork]

Upsy,

I'd figure out a test time in the evening that would allow you to test your water's parameters and eventually add ammonia at the same time everyday, as well as eventually allow you to test at 12 hour intervals.

I started testing at 8 PM, but when it came down to needing to test at 12 hour increments, 8 PM and 8 AM didn't work for me, as I'm at work from 7 AM - 4 PM, so I had to bump my time up by 30 minutes each day to reach a time that would work for me, which was 6:30 AM and PM.

I tested my ammonia levels every day, and my pH about every other day, and randomly tested for nitrites every few days. Once I started seeing ammonia drops, I tested ammonia and nitrite every single day and monitored my pH about every other day, as well as my nitrates.

I used API brand liquid test kits, which included drops, glass test tubes, and color code cards. These seem to be highly recommended test kits, not to say they're the only reliable ones, but they worked great for me. Quick, simple, and for the most part, very easy to read.

 

[upsy daisy]

Nork, thank you for that tip! Yes, I have the API liquid test, will test tonight at 10:00!
Regarding the water, though, does it clear up eventually? Will I have to do a water change before adding fish?

And about ammonia.. do you put it in straight after testing or some hours prior?

 

[waterdrop]

Excellent advice from Nork, who has just finished up an excellent fishless cycle! That's exactly the sort of testing schedule you want to anticipate having.

Practice the use of your test kit by running all the tests on your tap water and posting those up here. We like to have those listed, along with the tank volume and some other things at the top of a beginners fishless cycling thread (once that starts) so that we can get our bearings quickly when checking their daily log (usually also in the first post.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[upsy daisy]

Please don't get upset with my frequent questions but which testing bottle should I be using for testing pH the "regular" pH or the high range pH?

 

[Tolak]

Start with the regular, if it goes to the maximum measurable color you'll need to use the high range.

Don't worry about a load of questions, that's why we're here! To us giving loads of answers is great fun!

 

[upsy daisy]

OK!

Tank water after a few days of developing:

pH 7.5
ammonia 0.1
nitrite 0.8
nitrate 6.0

Clean tap water pH 7.1

When to add more ammonia now? Last few days I have been adding it very late at night, should I keep doing that?

Ah, I think I have been adding not enough ammonia.. Let's see what the results are like tomorrow, this is so interesting!

 

[waterdrop]

When you add ammonia are you then waiting about 20min and re-testing to see what concentration you accomplished in the tank? You want the concentration to be 4 to 5ppm.

Where is your log? Usually people edit their daily result log into their first post of the thread (perhaps yours is in a different thread and I missed it?) Are you reading the logs of other beginners? This is a good way to get more of a feel of what is going on.

Adding your ammonia very late at night would mean you are available to test it very late in morning later in the fishless cycle when we add in 12-hour tests to the 24-hour daily tests you are already doing. You have to ask yourself whether that will be an hour when you are typically at home and can perform the tests. (eg. if 11pm is your add-hour, then eventually your 12 hour followup test will be at 11am the next morning and your 24-hour followup test will be at 11pm the next night.) You only ever add ammonia on your 24-hour mark, even if the 12-hour test was zero ppm and you only add ammonia if it went to zero ppm in the previous 24 hours. Make sense?

~~waterdrop~~