A Few Begining Questions

[smarch93]

I got 2 bunched plants at my local petco, because I liked the idea of the benefits natural plants have over fakes.  I did my research got some fertilizer/food tablets to put in the substrate (they were API I believe, if that matters) I read tabs are better than fluid ones because they're near the roots and help most, so I got them to help start my plants take root, I plan to get liquid stuff later to put tabs one month and liquid the next and swap because the tabs are expensive and fluid is MUCH cheaper here, but I still get why tabs are better. 
 
one step the internet was vague on was lighting, it never specifically said the uv lighting was needed, thankfully being a reptile owner and knowing UV lights I specifically searched if UV was the lighting needed, so I got my 10watt UV CFL bulbs 2 days after planting for my 10 gal. I have had one leaf and stem rot off a plan already but the rest seem ok for now, but if things continue what's something I need to look or test into?
I'm also going to add more plants as these grow so I can give my betta plenty of hiding spaces because he's not terribly fond of the new bright lights.  For now I have the 2 bunches I got and a few silk plants so its not bare.  Any good hardy species to suggest? I was dumb and through out the plastic containers my plants had and didn't realize not all plants work in the same environment so its a trial at this point I guess.
 
I currently have the colored acrylic coated gravel in my aquarium, but to go more natural I've been thinking about switching to sand, been told play sand when all cleaned out is good, is this ok for the roots or would they not be able to breathe? the person I asked doesn't have live plants.  If not if the gravel I have ok or does it need to be the special planting substrate gravel?
 
Also I read a lot of things in this forum about CO2 canisters.  I have honestly never heard anything about these! Are they important in a planted tank? The fertilizer/food tablets were to add in CO2, so i'm a little confused I have a 10gal tank, nothing explaining the canisters mentioned size so is the fact that I have a small tank why I've never heard of them or seen them in my pet chain stores?
 
~Thanks, Sarah

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hi,
 
First off, have you any idea what the bunched plants you have are?
 
I would suggest, for you, to start with a low tech tank setup, with easy to look after plants, such as java fern, anubias, cryptocorynes, and stem plants like elodea, water wisteria, cabomba.
 
These sort of plants are very easy to look after, do not require a lot of light or fancy substrate/gravel, they're happy in whatever substrate. (with exception of java fern and anubias these do best tied to wood or rocks, not planted)
 
Fertilisers, all plants benefit from having ferts added to tanks, although not essential but helpful for health of plants.
 
Root tabs, they do help with root feeder plants such as cryptocorynes. Again, not essential in low tech set ups, just means they grow a bit slower. Btw API root tabs are not all that great imho, i prefer Seachem one as these contains macros which helps more. 
 
As for co2, there are several methods of co2, but i'd advise you to stay with low tech set up, once you move to co2, you will need to add fertilisers and it is good for plants, but for a beginner, imo, just to keep things simple then as confidence and knowledge grows, move onto co2 if you want to.
 
I have a link here about co2 and fertilisers, very good info and just for your info for future reference 
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/416755-pressurized-co2-equipment-flow-and-fertilization/
 
Hope that helps a bit for you to look up on.

 

[smarch93]

I honestly don't even know what they are i stupidly threw out the packages without remembering to write down the type. If no one here could ID these i can check when i go back to the pet store for frozen food. I just choose the most healthy looking ones.

 

[smarch93]

Hi,
 
First off, have you any idea what the bunched plants you have are?
 
I would suggest, for you, to start with a low tech tank setup, with easy to look after plants, such as java fern, anubias, cryptocorynes, and stem plants like elodea, water wisteria, cabomba.
 
These sort of plants are very easy to look after, do not require a lot of light or fancy substrate/gravel, they're happy in whatever substrate. (with exception of java fern and anubias these do best tied to wood or rocks, not planted)
 
Fertilisers, all plants benefit from having ferts added to tanks, although not essential but helpful for health of plants.
 
Root tabs, they do help with root feeder plants such as cryptocorynes. Again, not essential in low tech set ups, just means they grow a bit slower. Btw API root tabs are not all that great imho, i prefer Seachem one as these contains macros which helps more. 
 
As for co2, there are several methods of co2, but i'd advise you to stay with low tech set up, once you move to co2, you will need to add fertilisers and it is good for plants, but for a beginner, imo, just to keep things simple then as confidence and knowledge grows, move onto co2 if you want to.
 
I have a link here about co2 and fertilisers, very good info and just for your info for future reference 
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/416755-pressurized-co2-equipment-flow-and-fertilization/
 
Hope that helps a bit for you to look up on.

I just got more plants today since the ones i have have been doing ok, the small grassy ones in the picture are doing best. But i got a java fern, anubias, and wisteria. I like the java fern alot so once those grow more i want too take a part off and grow more. I just realized you say java fern and anubias do best tied to things and not planted, do they do ok planted? And if not how do i tie it, what do i use as the string?

Also i almost got java moss because i really like the look, but how would i care for that? I didn't understand how to plant it or tie it, still i waited on that.

Thanks for the advice on the low tech set up because i would have ended up wasting money i didn't need to.

 

[SO19Firearms]

Feed both liquid and tabs to cover all bases (water column dosing is the most important IMO)
Tie your moss down with cotton or use super glue - same for your java fern and anubius - you could google Moss walls too if you like the look
 

although not essential but helpful

 

[Ch4rlie]

??

Did I say something wrong?

 

[SO19Firearms]

All plants need food - IMO if you're gonna keep them at all you should feed them, unless you take either the average goldfish keepers / Garden centres approach and just replace them every month.
 
Without sounding like some kind of liberal (I'm not that bothered either way TBH) but if somebody put "feeding fish, although not essential but helpful" it'd look weird...

 

[fm1978]

In Ch4rlie's defence, I've never used ferts or CO2 and my plants and moss are doing very well. I had to get rid of the Riccia and Duck weed as it was doing a little too well!
 
Granted, I stuck with the very easy to grow, low maintenance type of plant, but still...

 

[SO19Firearms]

I've never used ferts or CO2 and my plants and moss are doing very well.

I'm hearing ya and I knew somebody would put just that. The problem with that is further down the line it tends to change to I have a tank full of algae and I don't know why, it was fine for 18mnths etc. In all honesty loads of people get away with it.
The real heart of the matter is that plants don't grow by magic. So if yours are doing well you're lucky enough to have water that contains plenty of Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium, Sulphur, Iron, Copper, Molybdenum etc etc required to get away with it.
Equally I know that goldfish only grow to the size of the bowl and you don't need fancy dechlorinaters to keep them because mine is doing well.*




*that's a lie, I really don't change its water....

 

[fm1978]

I do see your point of view and I'm certain you have much more experience than I do, so let's call it a draw! Hehe!

 

[daizeUK]

So if yours are doing well you're lucky enough to have water that contains plenty of Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium, Sulphur, Iron, Copper, Molybdenum etc etc required to get away with it.

Agree with this, there are so many factors that can spell success for one tank but a plant-melting, algae-infested disaster for someone else. Water is one factor, lighting (both tank and ambient) is another.

I did my research got some fertilizer/food tablets to put in the substrate (they were API I believe, if that matters) I read tabs are better than fluid ones because they're near the roots and help most

Unfortunately I think you were misled here. Ferts in the water, replenished regularly, are more helpful to plants. Aquatic plants naturally prefer to absorb nutrients through their leaves, which is where most of the growing action occurs, rather than go to the bother of transporting them from their roots (as terrestrial plants must). Some plants can benefit from root tabs but I would choose liquid ferts as priority.

one step the internet was vague on was lighting, it never specifically said the uv lighting was needed, thankfully being a reptile owner and knowing UV lights I specifically searched if UV was the lighting needed, so I got my 10watt UV CFL bulbs 2 days after planting for my 10 gal.

UV lights are not the right kind for growing plants. I think they are used in some marine tanks (not an expert on this) but the kind you need for planted tanks would ideally be 'daylight' bulbs around 6500K colour temperature. You don't need fancy 'plant growth' bulbs either, standard bulbs work just fine.

I've been thinking about switching to sand, been told play sand when all cleaned out is good, is this ok for the roots or would they not be able to breathe?

Plants can root just fine in sand.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Depends who you ask re where to fertilize plants. Tom Barr prefers doing it in both the substrate and the water rather than either alone. I tend to agree with that approach and have used it for many years now. Ammonia type ferts in the substrate and nitrate ones in the water- best for the fish that way. And aquatic plants enjoy feeding from their roots so much that many of them will actually move oxygen taken in in via the leaves down into their roots and out into the substrate to aerate it for the bacteria which will create ammonia and ultimately nitrate for the plant to take back in via the roots.
 

 Oxygen release from the roots of macrophyte species such as Littorella uniflora (L.) Asch. (shore weed), Lobelia dortmanna L. (water lobelia), and Glyceria maxima (Hartm.) Holmb. (reed sweet grass) stimulates nitrification and coupled nitrification-denitrification in the rhizosphere compared to that in unvegetated sediment (2, 36, 40).

from http/aem.asm.org/content/75/10/3127.full
 
The more amazing thing is that in tanks with rooted plants the entire microbiology changes compared to tanks with no plants. In unplanted, the nitrifying bacteria are limited the the top half inch or less before O levels are too low. In substrate with plant roots not only are their several levels with nitrifers. But there is usually an anaerobic zone between the aerobic ones. This oxygen starved zone supports denitrification and the bacteria associated with that.

 

[smarch93]

 

So if yours are doing well you're lucky enough to have water that contains plenty of Nitrate, Phosphate, Potassium, Magnesium, Calcium, Sulphur, Iron, Copper, Molybdenum etc etc required to get away with it.

Agree with this, there are so many factors that can spell success for one tank but a plant-melting, algae-infested disaster for someone else. Water is one factor, lighting (both tank and ambient) is another.

I did my research got some fertilizer/food tablets to put in the substrate (they were API I believe, if that matters) I read tabs are better than fluid ones because they're near the roots and help most

Unfortunately I think you were misled here. Ferts in the water, replenished regularly, are more helpful to plants. Aquatic plants naturally prefer to absorb nutrients through their leaves, which is where most of the growing action occurs, rather than go to the bother of transporting them from their roots (as terrestrial plants must). Some plants can benefit from root tabs but I would choose liquid ferts as priority.

one step the internet was vague on was lighting, it never specifically said the uv lighting was needed, thankfully being a reptile owner and knowing UV lights I specifically searched if UV was the lighting needed, so I got my 10watt UV CFL bulbs 2 days after planting for my 10 gal.

UV lights are not the right kind for growing plants. I think they are used in some marine tanks (not an expert on this) but the kind you need for planted tanks would ideally be 'daylight' bulbs around 6500K colour temperature. You don't need fancy 'plant growth' bulbs either, standard bulbs work just fine.

I've been thinking about switching to sand, been told play sand when all cleaned out is good, is this ok for the roots or would they not be able to breathe?

Plants can root just fine in sand.
 

Is algae bad for the tank or just not fun to look at? I've been growing some brown algae and haven't got around to  cleaning it because I plan to get a couple of snails soon and figure it'll give them something to munch on other than foods i'll be dropping in too, but if algae can per-say "choke" the tank (idk that's that's what we say about the bad seaweed in out lake) I can clean it/treat it. 
 
I have absolutely no problem buying the leaf absorbing additives since they were MUCH less expensive.  I'll probably save the tabs for when I plant new ones to allow the roots to grow since the pet store bunched ones I've gotten have had small roots. 
 
The lights I looked  up and daylight ones kept being what was said but UV is all I could find shopping, although they did say freshwater planted, so I don't know maybe I got a more expensive form of what I needed but whatever I got its worked since the short grassy ones have sprung up about double their height and I only had one rotted leaf incident with the other original ones. 
 
I've actually noticed so far they're doing better in the sand than the "fake gravel"

Depends who you ask re where to fertilize plants. Tom Barr prefers doing it in both the substrate and the water rather than either alone. I tend to agree with that approach and have used it for many years now. Ammonia type ferts in the substrate and nitrate ones in the water- best for the fish that way. And aquatic plants enjoy feeding from their roots so much that many of them will actually move oxygen taken in in via the leaves down into their roots and out into the substrate to aerate it for the bacteria which will create ammonia and ultimately nitrate for the plant to take back in via the roots.
 

 Oxygen release from the roots of macrophyte species such as Littorella uniflora (L.) Asch. (shore weed), Lobelia dortmanna L. (water lobelia), and Glyceria maxima (Hartm.) Holmb. (reed sweet grass) stimulates nitrification and coupled nitrification-denitrification in the rhizosphere compared to that in unvegetated sediment (2, 36, 40).

from http/aem.asm.org/content/75/10/3127.full
 
The more amazing thing is that in tanks with rooted plants the entire microbiology changes compared to tanks with no plants. In unplanted, the nitrifying bacteria are limited the the top half inch or less before O levels are too low. In substrate with plant roots not only are their several levels with nitrifers. But there is usually an anaerobic zone between the aerobic ones. This oxygen starved zone supports denitrification and the bacteria associated with that.

Do you alternate between root and water ferts? like the root tabs say dose monthly, so would I alternate one then the other every 2 weeks at half the dose as to not overfeed them and spark my algae? and don't want to really throw the water levels out of whack if the ferts are ammonia and nitrate based
Also I recently purchased a moss ball, but its one of the fake ones that says blah blah change in 2 months, is that a must? I plan to get a real one anyways but I was just curious if keeping the fake one in would be ok? because I don't now if the beneficial bacteria will move into it? that may be a cycling question though

 

[daizeUK]

Is algae bad for the tank or just not fun to look at? I've been growing some brown algae and haven't got around to  cleaning it because I plan to get a couple of snails soon and figure it'll give them something to munch on other than foods i'll be dropping in too, but if algae can per-say "choke" the tank (idk that's that's what we say about the bad seaweed in out lake) I can clean it/treat it.

Algae does not have any ill effect on fish that I'm aware of but it can damage plants. Brown algae or diatoms is quite common in new tanks and fortunately it wipes off very easily. You can wipe the leaves of your plants with each maintenance to make sure the leaves can breathe and get enough light.

 

[smarch93]

Algae does not have any ill effect on fish that I'm aware of but it can damage plants. Brown algae or diatoms is quite common in new tanks and fortunately it wipes off very easily. You can wipe the leaves of your plants with each maintenance to make sure the leaves can breathe and get enough light.
 

Thanks! I'll be sure to keep that in check since the plants are important too. What's the most effective way to wipe down the leaves? I have a sponge with a handle for the edges, but I assume that's not really going to help on the plants, I assume I'll have to reach in elbow deep, but whats best to wipe off the leaves and not damage them?  Would you suggest just doing these cleanings and not use my algae treat medication, since its not taking over the tank? I'm trying to use as few treatments and chemicals as possible so I keep the tank safe for future Invertebrates, So i'm assuming since it wont hurt the tank I can just clean it and be ok.  I plan to eventually build a moss wall on the side that has the most anyways because I hear shrimp love it and I like the look.  That's far off and probably wont  happen until the end of summer, but i'm waiting on getting them because I want to plants to be able to grow more and for the moss wall to grow to provide shelter and everything. 
 
I'm so glad my plants are effectively growing though, I kept one bunch before without doing research and they rotted within a week... and my goldfish uprooted them.  But my betta now loves them so and hides in them so maybe its also because they don't have a disruptive tank mate