7 Weeks Into Fishless Cycle --- Results Inconclusive -- What To Do?

[librarygirl]

130 days? #41####, I was hoping to be the longest - at least then I'd have something to bolster me against all these lucky souls who cycle in a few weeks

I don't know, I think I might have you both beat if I wait long enough lol

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Hi librarygirl,

Have you added bicarb to your tank? Have you increased the surface agitation by dropping the water level slightly to cause a bit of splashing? Have you got the temp up to 84F? (Also, do not OVERDOSE the dechlorinator too much. It has been found that too much can be a problem with a cycle - specifically with the nitrite bacteria, I believe. You can add double the recommended value, but no more than that.)

It might be worth considering a different dechlorinator. These keep very well for a period of several years - check the expiration date on the bottle, its usually the last four digits of the lot # (either that or the last four digits of the lot # is the production date and they last for 5-10 years. I can't remember now, and I'm not at home to check it. A call to the manufacturer would certainly address the issue.) I used API's Tap Water Treatment for my cycle, but now I have Prime on hand for when (if) the ammonia builds up in an emergency situation. Ironically, I type that just a few hours after my wife called and told me that the fish tank had been unplugged for about 12-18 hours yesterday. The ammonia jumped up to 0.25ppm. She has added Prime to deal with it for now - she doesn't know the water change routine, and I'd rather not explain it to her over the phone. She also isn't feeding today and possibly tomorrow, until the levels are rectified (or I come home, whichever comes first!).

 

[Miles_hot]

here - I've just had a thought (glad I was sitting down but drum roll please...)

You bought the sponge filter which was seeded (i.e. sort of Mature) and that is plugging away on it's own...The bacteria on this can't move across to your other filter as they are not in contact with that media so basically you have a small, fully cycled filter which isn't able to keep up with the Ammonia etc. How about, this is the brilliant bit, - how about you remove this filter, cut up all the sponge which came with it and add that to your other filters so that it replaces some of their media and is placed upstream of the rest of the media. This way you are actually seeding the larger mass of media with the bacteria?

Isn't that just brilliant - almost embarrassed that it didn't come to me earlier.

Regards

Miles
PS Now where's my meds?....

... a few hours after my wife called and told me that the fish tank had been unplugged for about 12-18 hours yesterday. The ammonia jumped up to 0.25ppm. ...She also isn't feeding today and possibly tomorrow, until the levels are rectified (or I come home, whichever comes first!).

Man you're harsh - a simple mistake and your wife has to fast until the levels sort themselves out?! I bet she doesn't make the mistake of unplugging the tank every again!

Miles

 

[librarygirl]

Hi librarygirl,

Have you added bicarb to your tank? Have you increased the surface agitation by dropping the water level slightly to cause a bit of splashing? Have you got the temp up to 84F? (Also, do not OVERDOSE the dechlorinator too much. It has been found that too much can be a problem with a cycle - specifically with the nitrite bacteria, I believe. You can add double the recommended value, but no more than that.)

I actualy stopped at the store last night and bought a new box of Arm and Hammer Baking Soda. 1 Teaspoon got the PH up to about 8.4 so I'll try to keep it around that level and see what happens. Temp is 84, yes. And between the 3 filters, air stone, and lower water level I have a LOT of surface agitation.

It might be worth considering a different dechlorinator. These keep very well for a period of several years - check the expiration date on the bottle, its usually the last four digits of the lot # (either that or the last four digits of the lot # is the production date and they last for 5-10 years. I can't remember now, and I'm not at home to check it. A call to the manufacturer would certainly address the issue.) I used API's Tap Water Treatment for my cycle, but now I have Prime on hand for when (if) the ammonia builds up in an emergency situation. Ironically, I type that just a few hours after my wife called and told me that the fish tank had been unplugged for about 12-18 hours yesterday. The ammonia jumped up to 0.25ppm. She has added Prime to deal with it for now - she doesn't know the water change routine, and I'd rather not explain it to her over the phone. She also isn't feeding today and possibly tomorrow, until the levels are rectified (or I come home, whichever comes first!).

Not sure if the Prime is expired, I didn't think to check. But I had a small bottle I was using at the beginning and then I ran out so I bought a bigger bottle, I can check the numbers when I get home. But last night I did buy a different dechlor just to try it. The only things I haven't tried are changing the dechlorinator (although it probably won't matter), getting the PH up to 8 and changing the water source. The first two are easy, so I did get the bicarb and upped the PH. I also bought some Tetra Aquasafe; I did a 90% pwc last night and added the new dechlor and refilled. Again, I doubt it'll make a difference, but it's worth trying.

The only other thing I didn't try was changing my water source. I'm considering changing out the water and using spring water, which still should have the minerals in it that are needed but without the added chemicals which could be somehow stalling my cycle. So if nothing changes in the next few days with upping the PH and changing the dechlor, I might try changing out the water and see if that helps. After that I'm out of ideas.

Thanks again for your continued help!

 

[librarygirl]

here - I've just had a thought (glad I was sitting down but drum roll please...)

You bought the sponge filter which was seeded (i.e. sort of Mature) and that is plugging away on it's own...The bacteria on this can't move across to your other filter as they are not in contact with that media so basically you have a small, fully cycled filter which isn't able to keep up with the Ammonia etc. How about, this is the brilliant bit, - how about you remove this filter, cut up all the sponge which came with it and add that to your other filters so that it replaces some of their media and is placed upstream of the rest of the media. This way you are actually seeding the larger mass of media with the bacteria?

Isn't that just brilliant - almost embarrassed that it didn't come to me earlier.

Regards

Miles
PS Now where's my meds?....

... a few hours after my wife called and told me that the fish tank had been unplugged for about 12-18 hours yesterday. The ammonia jumped up to 0.25ppm. ...She also isn't feeding today and possibly tomorrow, until the levels are rectified (or I come home, whichever comes first!).

Man you're harsh - a simple mistake and your wife has to fast until the levels sort themselves out?! I bet she doesn't make the mistake of unplugging the tank every again!

Miles

That is actually a pretty great idea! I'm not sure if any "seeded" stuff is left on that particular filter....it's been in there a while now and doesn't seem to have helped. I'm thinking of getting a fresh one (seeded, of course). So maybe I"ll cut the new one up and put it in the filters. OR.....maybe I"l get two....cut one up into the filters and leave the second one in the tank attached to the air pump!! Yes!!! Now if the tank doesn't cycle with all that, something is definitely wrong!! Thanks Miles, you're a genius!

Now I just have to decide whether to try this with my tap water or change out to the spring water. I'm just afraid something in my tap water is inhibiting the bacteria, so might it be safer to change over to spring before adding the seeded material? I think so, but are there any negatives that I'm not foreseeing (other than a possibly low PH, which I"d have to buffer somehow)?

 

[nehpets81]

130 days? #41####, I was hoping to be the longest - at least then I'd have something to bolster me against all these lucky souls who cycle in a few weeks

Yeah, about that and it still wasn't technically finished. You can't believe how jelous I was of those who seemed to finish in mere weeks. Also, I really started to hate that dark blue/purple colour on the Nitrite tests!

 

[nehpets81]

Well, now your PH is up to more favourable levels for the bacteria and you have done the water change, I would hope to see a speed up in the processing of the Ammonia.

Your Ammonia is going down (albeit slow and steady) and the Nitrates are going up so something is happening. This leads me to think that wither that Nitrite test is a dud or you are processing Nitrite much faster than Ammonia.

As regards to the softness of your water, this may indeed have an effect - the lower the KH level the more prone your tank is to a ph crash. The PH will come down with an increase of Nitrate levels as this in turn creates an increase in Nitric Acid.

I do think you are on the right track, a couple of things I am now wondering about:

There seem to be a lot of filters in there! I can't see why it would make a difference but could this be affecting it? I only say that because it is another variable...

The Prime - I admit I don't know how this works, does it keep working days after being added? Could this be processing your Ammonia rather than your bacteria? I don't see that it would prohibit the bacteria but it may be skewing your results a bit and for that reason I would try and use something else.

Oh, and I am (probably) officially the worst fishless cycler on here so make of that what you will ;-)

 

[Miles_hot]

I would think that your seeded filter sponge has bacteria on it - unless something has happened to kill them off (and the fact that the levels are slowly going down suggests that they're alive) they will have been fed by the ammonia etc...

Miles

 

[eaglesaquarium]

... a few hours after my wife called and told me that the fish tank had been unplugged for about 12-18 hours yesterday. The ammonia jumped up to 0.25ppm. ...She also isn't feeding today and possibly tomorrow, until the levels are rectified (or I come home, whichever comes first!).

Man you're harsh - a simple mistake and your wife has to fast until the levels sort themselves out?! I bet she doesn't make the mistake of unplugging the tank every again!

Miles

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The Prime - I admit I don't know how this works, does it keep working days after being added? Could this be processing your Ammonia rather than your bacteria? I don't see that it would prohibit the bacteria but it may be skewing your results a bit and for that reason I would try and use something else.

Oh, and I am (probably) officially the worst fishless cycler on here so make of that what you will ;-)

Prime will detoxify the ammonia, not get rid of it. I've never really heard anyone have a problem with it before.




librarygirl,

I think that Miles may be on to something with the sponge. There definitely is bacteria on that, just not enough to deal with the whole ammonia load. Chances are that the amount of water passing through it isn't high enough to allow a larger colony in that spot. If you wanted to, you don't have to actually cut it up to get the seeding to spread... just give it a good squeeze in the tank. That should loosen up some bacteria, which should be carried to the other filter by the water flow (Obviously, you could also squeeze it out into the other filter directly. The chances of adherence to the new filter would probably increase that way.)

I'm glad to hear that you've upped the pH. The fact that ammonia is dropping slowly and the nitrite still hasn't shown up while nitrate readings seem to be rising indicates that things are partially cycled. All that needs to happen is a bit more bacteria growth. Spreading the bacteria to the other filter by squeezing it out or cutting it up should help give them a larger surface area to grow on. Increasing the pH will put them more into their "happy zone" for growth. Keep a close eye on things and you may very well start to see the ammonia dropping faster than 0.5ppm per day. And once that starts to happen things should start to pick up steam more quickly. It is very possible that from this point the rest of the cycle lasts only another 3 weeks or possibly less. I would still hold out hope.

 

[Miles_hot]

Eagle - does squeezing really work - usually when someone comes on with the background that a mate gave them some manky water squeezed from their filter our response is "that's nice but the media in the filter would actually work..."?

Miles

 

[nehpets81]

The Prime - I admit I don't know how this works, does it keep working days after being added? Could this be processing your Ammonia rather than your bacteria? I don't see that it would prohibit the bacteria but it may be skewing your results a bit and for that reason I would try and use something else.

Oh, and I am (probably) officially the worst fishless cycler on here so make of that what you will ;-)

Prime will detoxify the ammonia, not get rid of it. I've never really heard anyone have a problem with it before.

Nor have I, just trying to look at all the angles - so by detoxifying the Ammonia, could this render it unsuitable for the bacteria to feed on?

 

[Tizer]

i believe it still manages to do its job even when detoxed.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The Prime - I admit I don't know how this works, does it keep working days after being added? Could this be processing your Ammonia rather than your bacteria? I don't see that it would prohibit the bacteria but it may be skewing your results a bit and for that reason I would try and use something else.

Oh, and I am (probably) officially the worst fishless cycler on here so make of that what you will ;-)

Prime will detoxify the ammonia, not get rid of it. I've never really heard anyone have a problem with it before.

Nor have I, just trying to look at all the angles - so by detoxifying the Ammonia, could this render it unsuitable for the bacteria to feed on?

No, it is still available for the bacteria. Ammonium (an ion of NH4) is far less toxic than ammonia (a stable compound) to fish, but the ammonia processing bacteria can process ammonium as well.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Eagle - does squeezing really work - usually when someone comes on with the background that a mate gave them some manky water squeezed from their filter our response is "that's nice but the media in the filter would actually work..."?

Miles

It depends what you are looking for. If you are looking for instant results, then no. But, you can seed a filter with the squeezings from an old filter. It will not provide a transfer of a ton of bacteria, but it will free some up (which is why you merely swish a filter around when "cleaning it" rather than giving it a huge squeeze or scrubbing (even in old tank water), and the freed bacteria will get trapped in the new filter, especially if it is squeezed directly into the new filter.