4th Spawning Attempt

[cutecotton]

hey was it true that petsmart will match the price of their online store

 

[JoKeR]

Some do Im about to find out today.....

 

[BeccaBlain]

re: The crowntails and the comment about not breeding --

Judging from the fact the spawn had genetic defects (No offense!), breeding these fish is not a good idea -- they have been inbred too much, and the defects, at least using scientific theory, should increase should it occur again.

If you were to use any for breeding, you would have to get a non-related sibling and hope there wasn't problems that you can't see with the fish. The potential for more culls is still present within the male and the female, which can cause you problems.

I would buy two first that aren't siblings and try with those, to be honest, or at least get a non-sibling CT if you really want to breed a CT line.

I hope that explanation helps a little bit.

 

[JoKeR]

Actually wuv explain me this thru PM..

She sadi some mouth deformities were caused because she sucked up fry while she was cleaning the tank. Also culls are very normal..

She explains this problem here

Another theory I have for the mouth problem is this...I think those might be the bettas that I accidently sucked up with the syphon when they were little I only saw like 2 or 3 when they were a week or two old...then they just kept showing up.And this was the worst spawn when it came to syphoning! I swear it only took the tiniest suction and BLOOP! ...up the syphon they went Maybe I dislocated their jaw I've never sucked up fry that young in any other spawn, it never happened with my orangies, and I never sucked up one delta.

So I dont think in-breeding the line will cause much culls..

 

[wuvmybetta]

re: The crowntails and the comment about not breeding --

Judging from the fact the spawn had genetic defects (No offense!), breeding these fish is not a good idea -- they have been inbred too much, and the defects, at least using scientific theory, should increase should it occur again.

Becca~
Are you talking about my Ct's? First of all, it was my observation that they were overbred, not a fact written in stone. To be quite blunt...this is a brand new strain and to go around speaking as though it's fact that they're overbred would give the impression that you know the history of these fish,which you clearly do not. Hey I don't even know, so please refrain from speaking of my fish.

 

[Wisperian]

Oh dear I sense another argument....... but I'm on wuv's side! The bettas were from betta talk and faith is a very good breeder so tell me why she would interbreed and mudify the genetics in her bettas

 

[JoKeR]

re: The crowntails and the comment about not breeding --

Judging from the fact the spawn had genetic defects (No offense!), breeding these fish is not a good idea -- they have been inbred too much, and the defects, at least using scientific theory, should increase should it occur again.

Becca~
Are you talking about my Ct's? First of all, it was my observation that they were overbred, not a fact written in stone. To be quite blunt...this is a brand new strain and to go around speaking as though it's fact that they're overbred would give the impression that you know the history of these fish,which you clearly do not. Hey I don't even know, so please refrain from speaking of my fish.

Thats true wuv

Becca do u know when they were bought...?

What there parents look like?

If the parents are even siblings?

I dont think so...

Also Betta lova just said this were from Faith.. Those are nice high qualitie bettas

 

[JoKeR]

Also I would like to add

Wuv's feelings are getting hurt becca ur telling her that her bettas arent good enough Like she told me. She told u all the ugly sides of breeding bettas the culls and everything. But shes getting offended when people buy bettas off aquabid but they dont know the real truth. Do u know if that line has bred to far? I dont think so she has told us her experiance and a few members in here are trying to tell her. that her bettas are not good enough. If I were selling some fish to some-one and they told me that it wasnt good enough. TRUST ME THEY WOULDNT BE ALIVE!

 

[wuvmybetta]

Yes,they did come from BettaTalk with a hefty pricetag and they were sold as breeders. Deformities sometimes just happen. My red/orange spawn which is pure turned out about 25% DT's. Talk about a genetic oopsy, it just happens sometimes. I'm not going to go and give up on the Ct's though, as I said it's a brand new strain and merely needs the kinks worked out of it. The genetic deformities could very well skip a generation.

I understand that 'overbreeding' is against your morals as a ....breeding observer( ).But breedng siblings is often the way of the betta world.

55 Tis true that nobody wants to hear somebody bad mouth their fish,especially when they're going by heresay. As I said to you....anybody can buy a betta off of Aquabid and they'll never hear the stories of the deformities that came out of that spawn,those culls were killed and swept under the carpet. However I show you all the ugly side of betta breeding,my fish shouldn't be judged by the deformities of his brother.

 

[JoKeR]

Yes,they did come from BettaTalk with a hefty pricetag and they were sold as breeders. Deformities sometimes just happen. My red/orange spawn which is pure turned out about 25% DT's. Talk about a genetic oopsy, it just happens sometimes. I'm not going to go and give up on the Ct's though, as I said it's a brand new strain and merely needs the kinks worked out of it. The genetic deformities could very well skip a generation.

I understand that 'overbreeding' is against your morals as a ....breeding observer( ).But breedng siblings is often the way of the betta world.

55 Tis true tha nobody wants to hear somebody bad mouth their fish,especially when they're going by heresay. As I said to you....anybody can buy a betta off of Aquabid and they'll never hear the stories of the deformities that came out of that spawn,those culls were killed and swept under the carpet. However I show you all the ugly side of betta breeding.

Well many breeders from Thailand and from U.S.A breed siblings and u can talk to any breeder even the most famous one Jim Sonnier and he will tell you that hes had culls. Its a natural thing...

 

[BeccaBlain]

55gallon: Now, if you're done screaming, I meant no offense, and I was speaking of the line with the mouth deformities. I don't know if your fish came from that line.

It is my opinion on genetics. Take it or leave it. I want the betta species to be strong and healthy. Wuv, Sorrel, and co, all should know I mean no offense at all, but it is genetic fact -- you breed 4 sets of siblings, and you'll start to have problems. I don't know how old your fish are, I don't really care where they came from, and I don't give a wit if you breed them or not. I was just saying if they are coming from spawns with a lot of problems, perhaps you shouldn't breed them.

I won't argue with you, I wasn't bashing you, or your fish. I was more making a comment on the genetics of fish in general.

If you inbreed fish too far and long, yes, you'll have problems.

Eventually, you'll have more rejects than good fish, and you can't know if there are unseen problems with the ones that weren't rejects. Its just a matter of how long the line can go before all of the fish are screwed from inbreeding.

Frankly, If you don't believe me, use google. I'm certain you can find plenty of information on genetics via the web that will support that statement.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Well it's nice to know that you single handedly intend to save the betta world from inbreeding

I will agree that you're not supposed to breed a line too far,no doubt about it. That's why we're all discussing the mixing of an orangie into the strain,to give it a boost. But...the parents of my parents may not have even been siblings
But....I know several members here who've bred complete 'strangers' and their spawns aren't doing so well. It's a crazy world.

 

[JoKeR]

Well it's nice to know that you single handedly intend to save the betta world from inbreeding

I will agree that you're not supposed to breed a line too far,no doubt about it. That's why we're all discussing the mixing of an orangie into the strain,to give it a boost. But...the parents of my parents may not have even been siblings
But....I know several members here who've bred complete 'strangers' and their spawns aren't doing so well. It's a crazy world.

Not a Crazy World

A Crazy Betta World!


Im sorry I was just trying to get laughter out of all of u...

55gallon: Now, if you're done screaming, I meant no offense, and I was speaking of the line with the mouth deformities. I don't know if your fish came from that line.

And I was not yelling Beca.....Just trying to give my opinion....

EDIT: I think shes aware that if u inbreed a line too much will cause problems....

C'mon it Kelly shes like the Betta Wiz!

Once agian another laugh..

 

[BeccaBlain]

wuv: Yeah, its a crazy world when it comes with fishes. Half of the problem comes with you don't know the backgrounds of the fish you get -- no one keeps records on it, like they do with dogs and horses.

Now, if people kept registries of their betta and the number of inbreedings, etc, it'd be much easier to make a genetic program for them that probably wouldn't prove to have as much failures.

Yes, I have no doubt there would be failures, even with two genetically stable fish -- my ONLY point was that I keep hearing about how breeders have no qualms with mixing 4th, 5th or even 6th generation fish, and it really saddens me...

I just marvel how "friendly" the "friendly fish forum" is, really... especially when just making a statement about genetics. I pointed no fingers. I only stated you breed too far in, and you'll have problems. And I said if the line was from the one with the deformities, I'd be a little cautious about going another generation further.

At least the double tail gene is something breeders "go for", and it doesn't prevent them from eating or breathing properly.

It would be kind of interesting to study the backgrounds of the fish that produced the double tail spawn, though. Too bad there isn't a registery with the information out there.

 

[Wisperian]

Yes I see your point becca but arent you being a bit too harsh on wuv?? She's trying to express her own opinion and you're disagreeing with almost everything that she says.... but its wuv's bettas n she's an expert so why not let her try what she wants to do and see how it goes? and its not her fault that she accidently suckeed up her fishies.... it was a mistake!