40 Days, Cycle Won't Start, Help!

[eaglesaquarium]

I agree about the water changes at the end - I did three complete changes just to rinse out the sodium, as I was adding cories to my tank soon after the cycle!

 

[daizeUK]

Thanks for the advice guys, I appreciate it.

I knew the bacteria didn't need light but I didn't realise it could harm them. Always something new to learn! I'll take my lights timer off until I'm ready to put live plants in there.

I was planning on doing two complete water changes at the end, one to reduce the nitrates and a final one just to cycle another week and ensure that everything is still working as expected. I will add a little sodium bicarbonate tomorrow to give them the best chances of muddling through and then keep an eye on my KH after I start a new cycle.

Hmm this is probably not the best time of year to be ordering live bacteria... chances of freezing in the post are probably quite high right now!

 

[DrSlackBladder]

Sound like a real concoction you've had in there; personally I'd take the harsh but simple approach of 100% water change, temp up to 28C, no bio additives, bottle of KleenOff ammonia from Amazon, dose to 3-4ppm (no higher), wait a week or so for reduction, redose to 2-3ppm ammonia when it drops below 1ppm, wait another week or two with 2-3ppm ammonia for nitrite spike to rise and drop to zero, large water change to drop nitrate to below 20ppm, keep dosing ammonia for a week to make sure you're cycled, another large water change to get nitrate below 20ppm, reduce temp to whatever you need for your intended fish, stop ammonia day before fish, final water test to ensure zero ammonia and zero nitrite, then if all ok add fish. Good luck!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I like your sig!

It will happen.

 

[snazy]

Besides what was already suggested, and from what I read the most probable problems could have come:

1st) You are using Api Tapsafe dechlorinator I understand. This only treats chlorines and heavy metals. Your tap water may be treated with chloramines as well so I would get a dechlorinator like that treats both chlorine and chloramines, and of course heavy metals.
2nd) that suspicious sand from outside may have contained chemicals unsuitable for aquarium use.

As for the other products you've used, as long as they raised the ammonia to 4ppm then they are not your problem since they should be aquarium safe.
Also as already suggested, when redosing, wait first for the ammonia to drop to 0 before redosing to 4ppm. Even the bacteria doesn't like a high dosage. Same if you like toasted bread but stuff your mouth with a hole loaf of bread instead, won't go down easily.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

If you can get a viable bottle of DrTims stuff you can have a tank fully cycled and ready for a full fish load in 5-7 days. You need a lot of seed material for that. I prefer the ammonium chloride to the ammonium hydroxide. I have also cycled using ammonia with surfactants for years with good results. Water changes and carbon handle the miniscule amount of surfactants. But like I said, I switched over to the ammonium chloride couple of years ago.

 

[daizeUK]

1st) You are using Api Tapsafe dechlorinator I understand. This only treats chlorines and heavy metals. Your tap water may be treated with chloramines as well so I would get a dechlorinator like that treats both chlorine and chloramines, and of course heavy metals.

Confusingly, I think that Interpet does two different 'flavours' of Tapsafe. The Gold Tapsafe doesn't remove chloramine. What I've got is a small sample bottle of Bioactive Tapsafe, which does remove chloramines but doesn't nullify the resulting ammonia (which is nice for fishless cycling, not so good for fishes). I've nearly run out anyway, so I'm looking for a new dechlorinator to replace it with.

2nd) that suspicious sand from outside may have contained chemicals unsuitable for aquarium use.

It was originally Tesco playsand which I thought would be the same as the Argos playsand I know a lot of people use. Still, it is a bit suspect so I think I will remove it for my next attempt at cycling. I like the texture of the expensive aquarium sand better anyway as it has coarser grains and doesn't compact so much.

Also as already suggested, when redosing, wait first for the ammonia to drop to 0 before redosing to 4ppm. Even the bacteria doesn't like a high dosage.

I did fear I may have scuppered my bacteria by re-dosing too soon but then I thought that they might recover after the big water change, but they didn't. I wonder if I should try reducing ammonia ion levels to 1-2ppm for a while and see if that coaxes them out?

I have also cycled using ammonia with surfactants for years with good results. Water changes and carbon handle the miniscule amount of surfactants. But like I said, I switched over to the ammonium chloride couple of years ago.

Did I make a mistake by removing the carbon? I was led to believe it wasn't needed for fishless cycling.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I don't believe removing the carbon is the issue. And yes, I'd start with a much lower dose of ammonia the next time you start.

 

[daizeUK]

Well, that's something I can do right now. A 50% water change should drop the ammonia and restore my KH and pH levels at the same time.
I guess it can't hurt to try it while I sort out what new products I'm going to buy.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

My only point was it is even possible to cycle using ammonia that contains surfactants (though not soaps or scents). Normally I would not run carbon during a cycle, but in my case using that ammonia it helped a lot. If you use the ammonium chloride or ammonia that does not contain surfactants there should be no need for carbon in that respect.

Basically cycling is not rocket science. Understand a few important principles and it really is easy. I still say to folks do it as instructed by Dr. Hovanec and life is a breeze. Do not over think, do not over test, do not over react. Also bear in mind that very few numbers are written in stone. General levels or ranges work fine most of the time.

 

[daizeUK]

Well that's done. 50% water change the ammonia reading is now 1.5ppm. I'll leave that running for a few days and see if it makes my A-bacs any happier.

One silver lining to all this is I've gone from being a siphoning noob to a pro, haha! I can start a siphon in under 10 seconds now without sucking or pumping, thanks to a tip I picked up from snazy.

 

[snazy]

I personally didn't cycle my tanks with such high doses of ammonia. I went 1-2ppm, 3ppm just the first dose. It took for two tanks around 3-4 weeks. Once it cycles, if you like you can increase the dose for a few days if you are putting a very very big bioload at once, but 1-2ppm is plenty for a good few first fish.

One silver lining to all this is I've gone from being a siphoning noob to a pro, haha! I can start a siphon in under 10 seconds now without sucking or pumping, thanks to a tip I picked up from snazy.

Easy, isn't it

 

[daizeUK]

1-2ppm is plenty for a good few first fish.

Great, I was only planning to start with 4 platies for the first few weeks so I will keep it low.

 

[DrSlackBladder]

I only cycled mine using 4ppm to start then just around 2ppm ammonia for the cycle, knowing that I intended to stock the tank gradually after that, and mine took 4 weeks. Just need to make sure you really do stock slowly, and make very regular water checks every day after adding new fish, and changing water if there is any hint of an ammonia or nitrite spike while the bacteria multiply to cope with the new bioload.

 

[snazy]

1-2ppm is plenty for a good few first fish.

Great, I was only planning to start with 4 platies for the first few weeks so I will keep it low.

That will be more than plenty for 4 platies.