3 Weeks Into Fishless Cycle - No Nitrites

[waterdrop]

Yes, agree, the MM will make it different and it will be good to look for some hints from your nitrate(NO3) readings, even though you have to keep in mind they can be less reliable than the other readings.

WD
ps, sorry I misunderstood TYS, glad you had good luck with your MM

Addendum: LG, another thing I've been meaning to suggest is for you to put a pinch of flake fishfood in there to break down. This is a trick we sometimes like to do because it adds a little bit of complication to tanks where the tap water is very pristine. You get some large organic molecules in there and sometimes some of the trace minerals and other things from this can possibly help a bit. At least it can't hurt - I've never known it to add enough ammonia to complicate the readings.

 

[librarygirl]

Yes, agree, the MM will make it different and it will be good to look for some hints from your nitrate(NO3) readings, even though you have to keep in mind they can be less reliable than the other readings.

WD
ps, sorry I misunderstood TYS, glad you had good luck with your MM

Addendum: LG, another thing I've been meaning to suggest is for you to put a pinch of flake fishfood in there to break down. This is a trick we sometimes like to do because it adds a little bit of complication to tanks where the tap water is very pristine. You get some large organic molecules in there and sometimes some of the trace minerals and other things from this can possibly help a bit. At least it can't hurt - I've never known it to add enough ammonia to complicate the readings.

Thanks WD! I did add some flake food about a week ago. Didn't seem to make much difference, at least as far as the tests. The seeded mag sponge filter is installed (I now have 3 filters on/in this tank lol). I also just threw in the wad of java moss I got as I'm not yet sure what to do with it. Last night I did see at least 2 baby snails that must have hitch-hiked into the tank from the plants (one on the plant itself and one on my tank's glass) and I saw what could have been some snail or shrimp eggs on the plants too. I was worried for the baby snails, not having food in there plus the ammonia, and I know some snails can overrun tanks. I'm thinking of just tossing the plants altogether for now. I don't think I want to be a shrimp and/or snail mama yet lol

I'll test tonight, which will be over 24 hours since the new filter has been in. Might be too soon for any results but I'll test anyway. Fingers crossed.

 

[librarygirl]

Well I think (hope!) that the sponge filter is helping,

I added it on Monday and ammonia was still at 2 ppm (it had been that way for a week since I re-dosed). The next night ammonia was at 1, nitrite 0, but there may be a small hint of nitrate; the tube wasn't as golden yellow as 0, but not as orange as .5. Last night ammonia was down again to 0.5, nitrite 0, nitrate the same at the slightly orange-yellow color. I hope this is good news!

I re-dosed ammonia last night to 2. Should I be dosing higher, more to 3 or 4? It's a 20 gal high.

Thanks

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You are fine dosing at either 2 or 4ppm. No big deal either way. If you are going to finish the cycle at a smaller dose (like 2ppm) then you need to have a smaller initial stocking level. You could always dose now at a lower concentration, and slowly raise it.

 

[librarygirl]

Ammonia still dropping slowly, about .25-.5 every night, no nitrites but nitrates are 5. I guess the seeded filters sometimes do this, skip the nitrites? I really was/am hoping to see a purple tube at least once

I'll check again tonight and then re-dose ammonia. I'm starting to think this tank is going to play a cruel joke, just keep dropping ammonia-- but never really reaching zero-- forever.

 

[librarygirl]

Well my ammonia is still dropping, albeit a bit slowly, about .5 ppm per night (it's currently at .5; I'll let it get down to 0.25 tomorrow and then redose). Still no nitrites.

Nitrates went up a few days ago from 5 to a darker orange, about 10-20 (colors are very hard to differentiate on the API kit).

It will be week 6 on Sunday.

I know this cycle isn't "normal" by any means, but should I still be hopeful that the tank will cycle in a reasonable amount of time? I'm about ready to call it quits and drop the tank out the window.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I feel for you, I really do... but I haven't a clue what could be happening. I suppose just keep up with it and see what happens.

An interesting possibility might be to keep an Amazon Dwarf Frog or two. ADFs don't require a filter (just water changes). But, if you do run a filter on that, the filter can slowly cycle in that tank and in a few months you should have a fully cycled filter for a few fish. Then you could slowly (and I mean slowly) increase your stocking.


My brother has ADFs and they are actually far more interesting than I ever thought they would be.

 

[librarygirl]

I feel for you, I really do... but I haven't a clue what could be happening. I suppose just keep up with it and see what happens.

An interesting possibility might be to keep an Amazon Dwarf Frog or two. ADFs don't require a filter (just water changes). But, if you do run a filter on that, the filter can slowly cycle in that tank and in a few months you should have a fully cycled filter for a few fish. Then you could slowly (and I mean slowly) increase your stocking.


My brother has ADFs and they are actually far more interesting than I ever thought they would be.

Thank you. It seems I have stumped a lot of people as to what's going on or what could help, other than waiting more and seeing.

I do love ADFs too, I was thinking of getting a couple for this tank with fish but after some research I figured they would do better in their own tank, so my original plan was to cycle this one for fish and then cycle a second smaller tank for the ADFs. I could use this tank for them, but.....dont' they need a cycled tank too? I'm guessing they put out ammonia just like fish do, so I would basically be in a fish-in situation, wouldn't I? I don't think I could subject anything living to my tank given how slowly it's processing ammonia now and I don't think I want to commit to daily large water changes and a lot of worrying. I went through that before and I wouldn't do it again.

Thanks though, I'll just keep waiting and hope for the best.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Frogs do not have the same issues with ammonia and nitrite as fish. The frogs can (and do) breathe air. The problem generally with ammonia and nitrite is the effect it has on the respiratory system of the fish - which is why a betta can survive in a much worse ammonia situation - with the ability to gulp air in their labyrinth organ. The frogs are fairly dirty, so a strong water change regimen is fairly important. My brother does 100% water changes weekly and has some anacharis in the tank with the frogs. Of course as soon as he finishes a water change, they shed their skin and filth up the tank again! You would want some "cover" in the tank for them, as well as provide them with something to sit on with their "nose" just out of the water to sleep/space out. They are such strange little creatures.


If you were seriously considering ADFs anyway, go over to the invertebrate/amphibian, etc. section and ask around. The frogs would be fine in that scenario - they just need dechlorinated water (using a dechlorinator that deals with heavy metals as well as chlorine/chloramine - which I am sure you already are using with your current tank). Ultimately, that might be the best way to go. You would at least have something in the tank and can help you cycle your filter in a slightly more enjoyable way. It isn't a fish-in cycle. It would be a "frog-in" cycle! That would be far different.



Quoted from fishforums.net amphibian section: LINK HERE

Setup: The general guideline is a gallon per frog but I'd say it depends on the size of the tank and whether you will be keeping anything else with them. For a frog only tank example; in a 5 gallon I'd recommend no more then 3(I personally have kept 5 in a 5 gallon but I was very strict with water changes and keeping an eye on the water stats). 5 or 6 in a 10 gallon, up to 9 in a 15 gallon but again it all depends on filtration, maintenance etc. You don't have to have a filter with frogs but it means that you will have to do extra water changes and keep a closer eye on water quality as is the case with fish they cannot tolerate nitrite / ammonia. Beware of internal filters which can trap the frogs delicate legs if they get sucked in, cover it with fine mesh to prevent this from happening if the filter has large gaps. African dwarf frogs prefer their water pH 7.2 - 7.6, but other people have kept them at slightly higher / lower PH and have had them spawn before.The tank should have a secure lid so the frogs can’t escape and the water should be treated with dechlorinator as it should for fish. A heater is essential as well as they need a constant temperature between 21 - 27C. A sandy substrate is best for frogs as they 'suck' their food in when they lunge for it and large pieces of gravel could get lodged or they may even swallow some which is not good as it can kill. I purchased a frog only to have it die a few weeks later because it's digestive system was blocked by a piece of gravel it had somehow managed to swallow in the shop I purchased it from. I've found that it's best to have caves / tunnels / hideouts dotted about the tank for them to hide under when they feel the need, mine seem to be more active when they know there are plenty of hiding spots. Plants, real or fake are also a nice addition as it gives more cover for them, large leaved plants seem to be preffered as they like to lounge about on things and large leaves are just perfect for this!

 

[librarygirl]

Frogs do not have the same issues with ammonia and nitrite as fish. The frogs can (and do) breathe air. The problem generally with ammonia and nitrite is the effect it has on the respiratory system of the fish - which is why a betta can survive in a much worse ammonia situation - with the ability to gulp air in their labyrinth organ. The frogs are fairly dirty, so a strong water change regimen is fairly important. My brother does 100% water changes weekly and has some anacharis in the tank with the frogs. Of course as soon as he finishes a water change, they shed their skin and filth up the tank again! You would want some "cover" in the tank for them, as well as provide them with something to sit on with their "nose" just out of the water to sleep/space out. They are such strange little creatures.


If you were seriously considering ADFs anyway, go over to the invertebrate/amphibian, etc. section and ask around. The frogs would be fine in that scenario - they just need dechlorinated water (using a dechlorinator that deals with heavy metals as well as chlorine/chloramine - which I am sure you already are using with your current tank). Ultimately, that might be the best way to go. You would at least have something in the tank and can help you cycle your filter in a slightly more enjoyable way. It isn't a fish-in cycle. It would be a "frog-in" cycle! That would be far different.

Wow that's interesting! And definitely an option.

I have some dirty filter media coming my way along with some crushed coral to get my GH/KH up temporarily to see if the soft water is the issue. Hopefully those two things will help and I'll just have to wait it out for a while. If by the end of August it isn't ready for fish I'll probably try it with the ADFs then (which I wanted at some point anyway) and I'll just research about what ammonia they can tolerate and what the best pwc schedule should be. Either that or I'll throw it out the window ; still haven't completely decided

Thank you!!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

No problem. I just don't want you to be stuck in an endless cycle. Check out the link in my above post - it deals with ADFs much more fully than I ever could (having never kept them myself).

If you have some mature media coming, that will most definitely help out. Best wishes with your "new" media.

 

[librarygirl]

As of tonight I have double-zeros!

I'm still not sure what the problem was, but after changing over to spring water and adding another seeded filter my cycle took off. Had nitrites the next day which rose to 5 and stayed there for a couple of weeks then started to come down a few days ago and tonight it's back to 0. I need to fix some things on the tank first (need a new stand, finish filling in the silk plants, fix the background which is coming off for some reason), so that will give me a week or so to keep testing the cycle to make sure it's secure before I start adding fish.

I just wanted to come back and update this log thread for anyone who might be reading it in the future.

Since the first post where I started the log on this thread is no longer editable, I'll continue it here:

[font="verdana]DATE -- AMMONIA -- NITRITE -- NITRATE -- PH -- NOTES

6/12 -- day of starting -- dosed to 2 PPM Ammonia
6/18 -- 1.5 -- did not test anything else. Added a mesh bag of about 1 cup of gravel from a seeded tank and a small rock from a seeded tank
6/19 -- 1-- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4
6/20 -- .5-1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4 -- Re-dosed ammonia to 3-4 PPM
6/23 -- 1-2 -- did not test anything else
6/24 -- 1-2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4
6/26 -- 1-1.5, -- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4 -- (2 weeks since start)
6/27 -- 1 -- did not test anything else
6/29 -- .5-1 -- did not test anything else. Re-dosed to 3 PPM ammonia
6/30 -- 1-2 -- did not test anything else
7/01 -- 1-2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4
7/02 -- 1-2 -- (3 weeks since start)
7/03 -- 70% pwc to try to get things kick-started (with Prime), added small crumbs of fish food, re-dosed ammonia to about 2-3
7/05 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4
7/06 -- 2 -- 0 -- 0 -- 7.4. Added some crumbled up fish food.
7/08 -- 2 -- 0
7/09 -- 2 --(4 weeks since start)
7/11 -- 2 -- Added seeded mag sponge filter from an established tank (from Jeta)
7/12 -- 1 -- 0 -- 2.5 -- 7.5
7/13 -- .5 -- 0 -- 2.5 -- Redosed ammonia to 2
7/14 -- 1 -- 0 -- 5 -- (Day 33)
7/15 -- .5-1 -- 0 -- 5
7/16 -- 0-.5 -- 0 -- 5
7/17 -- 0.25 -- 0 -- 10-20 (redosed ammonia to 2)
7/18 -- 1.5 -- 0 -- 10-20
7/19 -- 1 -- 0 -- 10-20 -- 7.4-7.5
7/20 -- .5 -- 0 -- 10-20
7/21 -- .25 -- 0 --10-20 (Redosed to 2)
7/23 -- 1 -- 0 -- 30-40
7/24 -- 1-1.5 -- 0 -- 10-20
7/26 -- .5-1 -- 0 -- 10-20 -- 7.4
7/27 -- .5 -- 0 -- 10-20 -- 7.4 -- added two seeded pads (Eco), bag of crushed coral; reduced to 1.5-2
7/28 -- 1 -- 0 -- 20-30 -- 7.4
7/29 -- .5 -- 0 -- 20-30 -- large pwc; redosed to 2
7/31 -- 2 -- 0 -- 10-20 -- 7.4 -- (7 weeks)
8/01 -- 1 -- 0 -- 0 -- 6 --- 50% pwc for PH crash; added fish food
8/02 -- .5 -- 0 -- 2.5 -- 7.4
8/03 -- .25 -- 0 -- 2.5 -- 90% water change; changed from Prime to Tetra AquaSafe; redosed 1.5-2
8/04 -- 1-1.5 -- didn't test anything else
8/05 -- .5-1 -- 0 -- 2.5
8/06 -- .25-5 -- 0 -- 2.5 -- (8 weeks); redosed to 2-3
8/07 -- 2-3 -- 0 -- 2.5 -- 90% pac; replaced with spring water; reduced to 2-3
8/08 -- 2-3 -- didn't test anything else
8/09 -- 2-3 -- didn't test anything else
8/10 -- 1-1.5 -- 0 -- 5 -- 7.4
8/11 -- 1-1.5 -- added seeded sponge (Angels Plus)
8/12 -- .5 -- 5 -- 10-20
8/13 -- .5 -- 1 -- 20-30 -- 7.4-7.8 -- (9 weeks)
8/14 -- .25 -- 2 -- 20-30 -- 7.4 -- redosed to 4
8/15 -- 3 -- 2 -- 20-30
8/16 -- 2 -- 5 -- 30-40
8/17 -- 1 -- 5 -- 40 --- 7.4
8/18 -- .25 -- 5 -- 40 -- 7.8 -- redosed to 2
8/19 -- 1 -- 5 --- 40-80
8/20 -- 0 -- redosed to 2
8/21 -- .25 -- 5 -- 40-80 -- 7.8 -- (10 weeks)
8/22 -- 0-0.25 -- 5 -- 40-80 -- 6 -- squeezed crushed coral bag to raise PH to 7.6 to counteract the crash; redosed to 2
8/23 -- .5 -- 2 or 5? -- 80 -- 7.8 -- redosed to 3-4
8/24 -- 1-1.5 -- 5 -- 80 -- 7.8
[/font][/size][/color][color="#1C2837"][font="verdana]8/25 -- 0 -- 5 -- 80 -- 7.8 -- redosed to 2-38/26 -- .25 -- 5 -- 160 -- 7.8 -- redosed to 28/27 -- 0 -- 5 -- 160 -- 7.6+ -- redosed to 28/28 -- 0 -- 5 -- 160 -- 7.6 -- Hurricane; power out for 7 hours; kept media wet and used air stone with battery powered aerator8/29 -- 0 -- 2-5 -- 160 -- 7.4-7.6 -- redosed to 28/30 -- 0 -- .25 -- 160 -- 7.6 -- 50% pwc; changed black gravel to black sand (black gravel color was fading and looked awful; like sand much better; redosed to 28/31 -- 0 - 2-5 -- 80 -- 7.6 -- redosed to 29/1 -- 0 -- 5 -- 80-160 -- 7.6 -- redosed to 29/2 -- 0 -- .25-.5 -- 100-160 -- 7.6 -- redosed to 2[/font][/size][/color]
[color="#1C2837"][font="verdana]9/3 -- 0 -- 0 -- didn't test nitrate -- 7.6 -- DOUBLE ZERO!!

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[color="#1C2837"][font="verdana]Going to keep testing for 7-10 days while I finish the tank (needs a new stand, fix the background, adding more silk plants) and then I'll start stocking. Stocking thread to follow. [/font][/size][/color]


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If I can cycle a tank, anyone can. If you're having trouble, don't give up! There's a reason it might not be working; just find it. In my case it was probably the water, but I'll never know for sure (and I'm not testing it by adding tap water back into the tank now! lol). Just be patient and persistent and it'll happen. [img]http/www.fishforums.net/public/style_emoticons/default/yahoo.gif[/img]
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[Miles_hot]

Whoop whoop so pleased for you - well done.for sticking.it out. I doubt there will be am issue in.the qualifying week but waiting a little longer will do no harm. Can you remember which fish you're going to have or is that something to decide this week?
So glad
Miles

 

[librarygirl]

Whoop whoop so pleased for you - well done.for sticking.it out. I doubt there will be am issue in.the qualifying week but waiting a little longer will do no harm. Can you remember which fish you're going to have or is that something to decide this week?
So glad
Miles

Hi Miles, thank you!!!

I started a stocking thread here. Advice and help are welcome.

I'm so excited!!!!!