29G Low Tech

[n3ont3tra]

Edit: This was originally an advice thread. I am turning it into a journal to keep track of my progress. Most of the tank information is given on this first page. Here is a quick update with some important info, but after this I'll just add a new post instead up updating the first one.

I've set up some goals for this tank.

Short Term - I want everything to be healthy sooner rather than later. The health of the fish and plants (and shrimp) come first. I need a stable ecosystem before I can mess with the plant arrangements.
Long Term - I'm going to college in a year, and my mom wants to keep the tank running. So... the tank needs to be simple and easy to maintain. There is also a 'final result' that I want to acheive sometime before I go to college.

Final Result (Long Term Goal):
I've been looking at all of the journals here, and pictures of tanks and of scenes from nature (not necessarily underwater ones) and I think I've finally found a picture that inspires me:

It's a photomanipulation from an artist called phatpuppy on Deviantart, and I love it.
So I've designed a tentative plan with the plants I think I might use for that:

Possible changes to that include making the little 'mound' with driftwood/rocks extend to the back of the tank (no trail behind it), and adding some plants to the left so the trail is slightly closer the the center. Also I may flip it horizontally because there's a wall on the left of the tank.

Obviously my tank is longer than it is tall (30"x12"x18") but that should only make it easier...

Anyway, I just thought somebody reading this might be interested in my goals for it.

For more updates go to the latest posts.

----------------------------------------------​

So I've had my 29 gallon tropical community tank for nearly 4 years now.
It's had it's highs and lows.
Right now it's rather low.
By this I mean the fish are starting to die, one by one, slowly, over a period of months. Algae starts to grow, and the plants start to die.
My normal maintenance is just feeding them, and a large water change about once a month (roughly). And taking out any dead plants or leaves.
I buy new plants to replace the dead ones and usually they take off and thrive and the fish are healthy and everything is good again for a while.
But the last time I bought new plants they didn't really take off, they just sort of withered away. The anubias that I have have algae on them.
And one piece of driftwood that I've had in the tank since day 1 (literally), that has been algae free for years, recently grew algae all over it.

How can I fix everything and get it back in prime condition? I assume I should start with a water change and more plants?

Stocking is roughly

8 Penguin tetras
8 neons/cardinals (it's a mix really, they all school together though)
6 Kuhli loaches
3 Upside down catfish
3 Pygmy gouramis (new, got them for free yesterday, couldn't refuse)
6? Guppies (Not sure on the exact count)

Filter is an eheim external filter. I forget the exact model but I think it's rated for 55 gallons.
On last check (a few months ago) parameters were normal. 0 Ammonia, nitrites, 15-20 nitrates, 6.6 pH. These are the parameters nearly every time I test, and I can usually tell if anything is seriously wrong, so I don't test much anymore.

 

[jameshughes1989]

It seems to me like you have lost all interest in the tank. If that is the case why not try something new that will get you enthusiastic again. Maybe a new scape or some new stocking. There isnt much point of a tank if you dont like it yourself. Get motivated by something that inspires you. That'll be my advice.

What lighting have you got? Do you had ferts?

I think a water change wouldnt hurt anyway and maybe look at some interesting plants that really takes your fancy. Again, enthusiasm for something new.

Cheers, and I hope that helps

 

[SuperColey1]

Long time no hear Yes I remember you.

Can you give us a little more detail on the tank itself. I seem to remember you were insistent on super highlight back in the day

Remind us what lights you have (or what you replaced them with)
CO2 or not?
Ferts or not and what do you dose, how much and how often

You say it works for a while and then goes bad again. Do you lose motivation or get sloppy with you routine? Do you do anything differently before they go bad again.

I must say sounds like a lot of stock for a 29USG. (I am not one to talk about high stocking. lol)

How often do you do water changes, what percentage. Is it regular or do you miss any?
What substrate is it and how old is it. Brand names if it was a branded substrate would be helpful.

And can you tell us the Eheim model from the print on top of it? Filter turnover would be useful.

And of course a picture would be good to get an idea of the mass we are talking about. (If you don't want to put up a picture of a dying tank then a recent one with the good plants is fine.

Don't lose heart matey. We helped you when you first came here and we will help you again.

AC

 

[n3ont3tra]

It seems to me like you have lost all interest in the tank. If that is the case why not try something new that will get you enthusiastic again. Maybe a new scape or some new stocking. There isnt much point of a tank if you dont like it yourself. Get motivated by something that inspires you. That'll be my advice.

What lighting have you got? Do you had ferts?

I think a water change wouldnt hurt anyway and maybe look at some interesting plants that really takes your fancy. Again, enthusiasm for something new.

Cheers, and I hope that helps

I have lost intereste periodically but it always comes back whenever I get something new, and now I have guppies and I'm hoping they'll breed so I can continuously be getting something new.
Interested or not, I still feel bad about letting my fish suffer so I want to make the tank better for them even if I think they're boring.
And my mom won't let me change it from a peaceful little community tank.


Lighting is weak on this tank. I think it's a 45w compact fluorescent, and it's only 24" so it leaves a few inches of space on the sides. So I'm limited in plants and have mostly stuck to amazon swords, anarcharis (I forget the other name for this), java moss, and anubias.

Long time no hear Yes I remember you.

Can you give us a little more detail on the tank itself. I seem to remember you were insistent on super highlight back in the day

Remind us what lights you have (or what you replaced them with)
CO2 or not?
Ferts or not and what do you dose, how much and how often

You say it works for a while and then goes bad again. Do you lose motivation or get sloppy with you routine? Do you do anything differently before they go bad again.

I must say sounds like a lot of stock for a 29USG. (I am not one to talk about high stocking. lol)

How often do you do water changes, what percentage. Is it regular or do you miss any?
What substrate is it and how old is it. Brand names if it was a branded substrate would be helpful.

And can you tell us the Eheim model from the print on top of it? Filter turnover would be useful.

And of course a picture would be good to get an idea of the mass we are talking about. (If you don't want to put up a picture of a dying tank then a recent one with the good plants is fine.

Don't lose heart matey. We helped you when you first came here and we will help you again.

AC

I remember you too.

I think you are mistaking it for my 10g which had about 4 watts per gallon, this tank has always been low tech with a simple 45watt compact fluorescent. I can't upgrade the lighting at the time, unfortunately.
No CO2 (never have used it on this tank), I use root tabs occasionally, but I ran out about a year ago and haven't bought more since.

I suppose I do get sloppy with the routine when I have a lot going on. I try to make up for that with a slightly larger water change.
I'd say I'm change at least 30% every month, at least. Sometimes I would do larger water changes than that and it always seemed to help - no fish has died soon after a water change.

I have completely forgetten what high and low stocking is, since I haven't had to stock a new tank in a while and am mostly just replacing fish. So that must not be good lol.

Substrate is play sand. It's really old.

Filter is Eheim 2213, filter circulation 102 gph, rated for 66 gallons.

I'll put up a picture (of a dying tank ) tomorrow. It'll be embarrassing but I know it will help lol.

Also I may be making a very rare visit to my lfs tomorrow so I'll try to get some plants, root tabs, a new lightbulb (I need one, it's old) and other things that I know I'm forgetting about right now.


Thanks a lot for all the help.

 

[n3ont3tra]

Oh, I just double checked on the lighting and I was a bit off. xD
It's actually a 20" fixture, so there's more room on the sides then I thought.
But I've used it for as long as I can remember so it can't be that bad. Although there is a lot of dark space on the sides.
I would love a new, properly fitting fixture, but I don't think my mom will buy it.

I'm heading off to the LFS now, to hopefully get some plants, root tabs, fish food, and a new lightbulb. I've never been to this store before so I hope it's alright.

 

[n3ont3tra]

Mission completed.

I think I may have gotten too many plants.
3x Italian? Vallis
2x Swords (not sure which kind, one is variegated)
1x Lotus Plant (beautiful with the lotus!)
3x Anarchis clumps (it's a lot, but they're only about 6" tall so they have some growing to do.)

And I took a count of what I already had:
2x Small Amazon swords (sort of unhealthy)
2x new plants that I forger what they're called. They're very healthy and I got them for free.
Some Anubias (unhealthy, but I'd had them forever adn they still seem to be growing new leaves, even if they always have algae on them. They're massive)
A few rocks, and 3 pieces of driftwood (medium-small, one piece is covered with algae)
Tonssss of java moss, I now hate it, it grows everywhere and floats around and looks bad. I removed as much as I could.

I planted all the plants and moved some of the wood and rocks around. I stirred up a lot of debris and poop, hopefully the filter will catch it, but there was a lot under the wood. I'll have to siphon it out when I do a water change.

Unfortunately I bought the wrong type of lightbulb so my mom will return it tomorrow and hopefully get teh right kind.

I'm going to let it settle a bit before I take new pictures but I took some last night that I'll post. I think it's better if you guys know exactly what the tank is like at the moment with no sugar coating. Here you go.

Here you can see the algae growing on the driftwood. It is very hard to remove. Is there something that will eat this, or a way to treat the wood to remove the algae?

One of the Amazon swords. You can see a few dead or dying leaves.

Some of the Anubias. You can see that there is a lot of algae growing on the old leaves. I tries brushing it off but it doesn't really work, I'm not sure if I should remove the infected leaves (nearly all of them) or leave it?

Theres a bit more of this algae on the anubias that is on the algae infested driftwood. lol. It also has some kind of black/brown spots (algae?) on it.

Half of the tank. I have removed all of the moss in the front, and planted the floating plants.



So what I'm mainly wondering now is what I should do about the algae infested plants and driftwood?



Thanks for looking.

 

[SuperColey1]

I have lost intereste periodically but it always comes back whenever I get something new, and now I have guppies and I'm hoping they'll breed so I can continuously be getting something new.

We all lose interest but it is pretty important just to keep up the basics. If you have the tank perfectly setup then it can mean almost no maintenance while you have a spell of inactivity before regaining motivation. Even more important during this spell because if you let it go then every time you see it it makes you feel even lesss motivated.

I think it's a 45w compact fluorescent,

Aargh the dreaded CF. Starting to see a little into the nightmare now. I hated those CFs. Loads of light in 1 place and almost dark in others. far too intense IMO.

I can't upgrade the lighting at the time, unfortunately.

Peronally I would 'downgrade' (so called downgrade. I would call an improvement ) to 2 x 24" T8 (36W) It will spread the light out and give you better coverage than the single super intense CF. You will see better results then.

No-one needs root tabs even in 'inert' substrates. Sales gimmick IMO.

Stick to a small water change weekly. Always make sure that even when you lose interest that the maintenance part gets done. Its fine not to vacuum and fine not to prune. Cleaning filters and water changes are compulsory or you get problems. Try 10% (q bucket) weekly and keep to it.

No problem with high stocking in a non CO2 low light tank. It means that you get natural ferts

Substrate is play sand. It's really old.

Give it a good 'prod' all over followed by a large water change.

But I've used it for as long as I can remember so it can't be that bad. Although there is a lot of dark space on the sides.

Lol I said that above when moaning about CFs

I would love a new, properly fitting fixture, but I don't think my mom will buy it.

Sell the CF on ebay. USE the money to buy a retrofit T8 setup.Shouldn't cost much more than you sell the CF for. No harm in not having a light for a few days. You could use this time for a 4 day blackout to help stamp some of the algae out.

What is that white thing on the driftwood to the right?

The pictures say to me low CO2. Are most of the worst affected parts of the tank under the CF? Are the other areas better? That is a lot of algae and looks like a mix of the light pummeling the centre of the tank with intensity and also a little bit of poor maintenance routine.

So what I'm mainly wondering now is what I should do about the algae infested plants and driftwood?

I would definately do the blackout. Wrap the tank in black plastic bags (or cover in a blanket. 4 days - No feeding, no peeking. Put the plants in cover it and do not go near it for 4 days. The plants will be OK. After 4 days you should see some of the types of algae starting to die. Not all of them but some.

Next I would most definately get rid of that CF. Sell it. Loads of people still seem to think they are great. They are one of the problems of a few years ago. Everybody bought them because 'you need super highlight and these are superb'. No one buys them now although many still use the ones they bought back then. Mostly with pressurised CO2 though.

Apart from the algae's it doesn't look to bad. I was expecting cyano but I can't see any. that would've been a real problem combined with a lack of motivation. Chin up and cover the tank up.

AC

 

[n3ont3tra]

I'll reply to your post then add new pics.

Aargh the dreaded CF. Starting to see a little into the nightmare now. I hated those CFs. Loads of light in 1 place and almost dark in others. far too intense IMO.

Peronally I would 'downgrade' (so called downgrade. I would call an improvement ) to 2 x 24" T8 (36W) It will spread the light out and give you better coverage than the single super intense CF. You will see better results then.

I'll definitely try to get a 'downgrade' then. I'm really looking for a 30" fixture, cause the top I have isn't quite wide enough and my current lighting hangs over the water a little and it always makes me nervous that it'll fall in.

No-one needs root tabs even in 'inert' substrates. Sales gimmick IMO.

Alright then. More money for lights.

Stick to a small water change weekly. Always make sure that even when you lose interest that the maintenance part gets done. Its fine not to vacuum and fine not to prune. Cleaning filters and water changes are compulsory or you get problems. Try 10% (q bucket) weekly and keep to it.

Will do

Substrate is play sand. It's really old.
Give it a good 'prod' all over followed by a large water change.

I'll do a water change tomorrow.

I would love a new, properly fitting fixture, but I don't think my mom will buy it.
Sell the CF on ebay. USE the money to buy a retrofit T8 setup.Shouldn't cost much more than you sell the CF for. No harm in not having a light for a few days. You could use this time for a 4 day blackout to help stamp some of the algae out.

Should I still do the blackout even though I just got new plants?

What is that white thing on the driftwood to the right?

My Amano shrimp?

The pictures say to me low CO2. Are most of the worst affected parts of the tank under the CF? Are the other areas better? That is a lot of algae and looks like a mix of the light pummeling the centre of the tank with intensity and also a little bit of poor maintenance routine.

The areas in the middle have the hair algae on them the most, and the plants on the sides have the most brown leaves and black/brown spotty algae.

I would definately do the blackout. Wrap the tank in black plastic bags (or cover in a blanket. 4 days - No feeding, no peeking. Put the plants in cover it and do not go near it for 4 days. The plants will be OK. After 4 days you should see some of the types of algae starting to die. Not all of them but some.

I'll just ask again in the same post lol, should I still do the blackout even though I just bought new plants?

Next I would most definately get rid of that CF. Sell it. Loads of people still seem to think they are great. They are one of the problems of a few years ago. Everybody bought them because 'you need super highlight and these are superb'. No one buys them now although many still use the ones they bought back then. Mostly with pressurised CO2 though.

I'll see what I can do about the CF. What kind of light or how many watts am I looking for as a replacement?

Apart from the algae's it doesn't look to bad. I was expecting cyano but I can't see any. that would've been a real problem combined with a lack of motivation. Chin up and cover the tank up.

There's definitely no cyano, I have enough of that in my marine tank.

Thanks for the help.


Now for the pictures. I forgot to clean the glass.

Here you can see some more of the algae on the old plants, and the new anarcharis behind it.

This picture was taken to show the debris and things I had stirred up, and how the java moss is everywhere. But you can also see my kuhli loach and my new variegated sword on the left.

The far right side of the tank. The sword on the right is new, the one on the left is old. The anubias is old. The anarcharis and the stuff to the right of it (forget its name) is new and healthy.

The middle of the tank, you can see most of the new anarcharis, the algae covered wood, and an old amazon sword on the left.

And the far left of the tank, showing the rest of the driftwood, the new Vallis and Lotus, and another sword.

Full tank shot.


So, recap, now that I have new plants should I still do the blackout?


I really appreciate the help.

 

[SuperColey1]

I had this problem when I had the CF. I sold the CF 3 months later and went back to linears and the problem reduced. It was a mixture of CO2 + too much light in one position.

Do the blackout yes with the new plants. You should have waited really but if you don't do the blackout then you have a tank with a rampant algae force ready and waiting to jump on the new plants.

I would personally stick the new plants in a bucket for 4 days. Even if they look a little poor at the end they'll come back to life.

I would go for 2 x 18W T8 (24") and use one of those glomat starter thingys. A couple of reflectors and you're ready to go. Probs circa $50 for a second hand starter and 2 cheap (but the same as Aquarium) tubes + 2 cheap bent reflectors.

That would leave you with 3" at each end but then oyu could space them out a third from the front and a third from the back.

Thats why I haven't suggested 1 x T5HO 30" 30W. It is better to have more tubes (more point sources) than less. Gives you more options and also means you can use less wattage to achieve the same PAR. With 1 light like yours you are getting super high PAR in the centre and low PAR further away. With 2 tubes you can reduces the wattage of each thus reducing the PAR directly underneat whilst spacing them means the edges have a higher PAR than with 1 tube. Levelling the playing field if you like

AC

 

[n3ont3tra]

Alright I'll put the new plants in a bucket, do a small water change, and then black it out starting today.

I'll see what I can do about the lighting. Do you know if 24" fixtures will be wider, because I'm afraid it won't fit on the top that I have.

Edit: Do you mean something like this for the lighting? Sorry I'm clueless.


Edit again: I think there's something wrong with my light fixture anyway, it' won't turn on.
I don't know if it's the light fixture or the timer or what... hmm.
A few weeks ago I assumed that my lighbulb had burned out when it hadn't turned on, and I went back to the only one I had, an old spare. Now the same thing has basically happened with this bulb. I tried unplugging it and plugging it back in, turning it on/off, trying it without the timer, advancing through a day on the timer. It worked once without the timer but then I couldn't get it to work again. And it flickered once while on the timer after I turned it on once but it didn't stay on. Not sure what's wrong with it...

edit again: fixed it. no idea what was wrong with it though.

last edit: changed 25% of the water, cleaned out the filter, and covered the tank in towels. I hope it doesn't get too hot.

 

[SuperColey1]

I'll see what I can do about the lighting. Do you know if 24" fixtures will be wider, because I'm afraid it won't fit on the top that I have.

24" tubes + end caps = 26". How is your CF fitted? Is it a stock light or an upgrade? either way all retrofitting means is take out the old, screw some tube holders in lid and then clip the tubes (with end caps already on) into the clips.

Edit: Do you mean something like this for the lighting? Sorry I'm clueless.

Nope that unit is the 'defeat the object' style of modern aquarium luminaires. They are following the lines of giving more light then squeexing the tubes together just like your CF already is. I mean retrofitting whic means getting the light unit and then either building a box for the lid and spacing them nicely or screwing them into an existing lid.

Making a new hood is easy. MDF will do. Glue or small tacks and some yacht varnish inside to 'waterproof' it. You choose your own decor for the outside whether it be sprayed black or at the more expensive end wood veneering. But it is easy to make one, will cost you 1 sheet of MDF ($10) and then will be perfect fit for your tank:

http/www.greenneedle.co.uk/Hood1.html

That Dr Foster site is typical of American sites. They all have OLD (obsessive light disorder) Nothing but T5HO on there and I think the hobby needs to stand back and not think new technology is the best option. Yes they perform better in terms of output but at what cost to providin equal spread on the substrate.

What you want is osmething like this:
http/www.123aquatics.co.uk/showproduct.aspx?Url=hagenglot8twinstarterunit-1115&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

You need to search for US sellers. Those helpful guys at Google think I only want to find UK shops. Even if I try to put US or $ in

edit again: fixed it. no idea what was wrong with it though.

Is it a digital timer? If so that is your problem not the light. You need either mechanical type timers (The ones with the dial) or special digital ones that are made to be used with flourescent lighting.

Not going to get too hot from towels. lol. They are pretty porous and your heater will turn off more. Make sure there ano little gaps and remember no peeking or feeding.

AC

 

[n3ont3tra]

Thanks.

I'm not confident at all in my abilities for DIY things... and there's nobody around that can help/do it for me. So unfortunately I think I'm going to steer clear of all of that. Thank you for the suggestion though.

My CF was an upgrade for my old 10 gallon, and when I took that down I realized that it was also an upgrade over the stock lights on my 29g. Looks like maybe it wasn't, but I don't have the old stock lights anymore.

Also it's not a digital timer, it's a mechanical one. I think maybe the bulb was loose, but I can't be sure.


I was looking for more lighting fixtures that might be suitable. I was looking for dual 18W T8's but I haven't found any yet. I have found these 2x 24 watt T5's, would they be an improvement?

 

[SuperColey1]

Also it's not a digital timer, it's a mechanical one. I think maybe the bulb was loose, but I can't be sure.

I was just guessing there. lol


Thats the trouble with American aquarium sites I see. They are so obsessed by power and more light. It seems they have got rid of all the T8 stuff.

If all you can get is T5HO then get a single 30". That should be 30W giving you just over 1WPG.

AC

 

[n3ont3tra]

How about this?

 

[SuperColey1]

looks ok to me. Do they do one with freshwater tubes?

AC