Themuleous
Fish Connoisseur
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Tanks looking nice 
Sam
Sam
10g Planted Tank Journal - 5/2 - Small Update
- Thread starter n3ont3tra
- Start date
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I like the look of the tank neon, sometimes the lack of a background plant can be very effective. I'm sure that oto will also make short work of that algae as well.
I do have to address something, however, that you perhaps may not like. I think your tank is too small for even chain loaches. Your original stocking for this tank was much better. I like to bend stock rules quite a bit, but there's a point where the rules simply cannot be bent. It's really not a size issue, but a fish behavior issue. Chain loaches, though small, need to be in rather large shoals, about 6 fish, and like a tank with a larger footprint, rather than depth, as they move quite a bit more than corydoras. A 15g long has a bigger footprint and is probably the minimum size I would keep loaches in. I think manually removing snails and sticking to corydoras is your best bet. Cories are more stationary and are not as effective swimmers, so people can get away with certain corydoras species in a smaller system.
In addition, in your last post you mentioned that you may have ammonia in your tank. If you suspect ammonia poisoning was the cause of livestock loss, then you really shouldn't consider adding more livestock until that problem is addressed. Your tank may not be densly planted enough to accomodate your current bioload. I totally agree that stocking rules can really be played with when your tank is densly planted, I'll be the first to defend planted tank stocking and keeping fish in smaller tanks, if the correct choices are made. It is better to relax on the stocking until your plant situation can accomodate the extra livestock. That's just my opinion. It is after all, still a fish tank.
llj
I do have to address something, however, that you perhaps may not like. I think your tank is too small for even chain loaches. Your original stocking for this tank was much better. I like to bend stock rules quite a bit, but there's a point where the rules simply cannot be bent. It's really not a size issue, but a fish behavior issue. Chain loaches, though small, need to be in rather large shoals, about 6 fish, and like a tank with a larger footprint, rather than depth, as they move quite a bit more than corydoras. A 15g long has a bigger footprint and is probably the minimum size I would keep loaches in. I think manually removing snails and sticking to corydoras is your best bet. Cories are more stationary and are not as effective swimmers, so people can get away with certain corydoras species in a smaller system.
In addition, in your last post you mentioned that you may have ammonia in your tank. If you suspect ammonia poisoning was the cause of livestock loss, then you really shouldn't consider adding more livestock until that problem is addressed. Your tank may not be densly planted enough to accomodate your current bioload. I totally agree that stocking rules can really be played with when your tank is densly planted, I'll be the first to defend planted tank stocking and keeping fish in smaller tanks, if the correct choices are made. It is better to relax on the stocking until your plant situation can accomodate the extra livestock. That's just my opinion. It is after all, still a fish tank.
llj
I like the look of the tank neon, sometimes the lack of a background plant can be very effective. I'm sure that oto will also make short work of that algae as well.
I do have to address something, however, that you perhaps may not like. I think your tank is too small for even chain loaches. Your original stocking for this tank was much better. I like to bend stock rules quite a bit, but there's a point where the rules simply cannot be bent. It's really not a size issue, but a fish behavior issue. Chain loaches, though small, need to be in rather large shoals, about 6 fish, and like a tank with a larger footprint, rather than depth, as they move quite a bit more than corydoras. A 15g long has a bigger footprint and is probably the minimum size I would keep loaches in. I think manually removing snails and sticking to corydoras is your best bet. Cories are more stationary and are not as effective swimmers, so people can get away with certain corydoras species in a smaller system.
In addition, in your last post you mentioned that you may have ammonia in your tank. If you suspect ammonia poisoning was the cause of livestock loss, then you really shouldn't consider adding more livestock until that problem is addressed. Your tank may not be densly planted enough to accomodate your current bioload. I totally agree that stocking rules can really be played with when your tank is densly planted, I'll be the first to defend planted tank stocking and keeping fish in smaller tanks, if the correct choices are made. It is better to relax on the stocking until your plant situation can accomodate the extra livestock. That's just my opinion. It is after all, still a fish tank.
llj
Thanks for your concerns, lljdma06
I've thought about the dwarf loaches and have decided not to get them. The snails really do bother me, but I've decided that happy pest snails are better than unhappy fish. I'm not sure whether or not I'll get cories yet. I know I'll be getting a few more shrimp, cause they're so darn cool. I was also thinking about ADFs.
As for the ammonia, pretty sure that it didn't kill the shrimp and oto. I just tested and there was .5 at the most. I know any ammonia at all is bad, but the media is from my 29g so it should be gone long before I add anything else to the tank.Actually, the for the shrimp... I just counted three amano shrimp. I didn't think it shed because it felt pretty fleshy to me, but I guess it's possible... From what I've heard about otos, they seem to acclimate poorly in the first few months. I'll keep checking though. I'm going to do a water change in a few minutes.
Good, you should because .5ppm of ammonia is pretty bad. Fish show signs of stress at .25ppm, .5ppm can be toxic. Consider throwing in some bunches of Egeria densa to absorb excess ammonia while you get your plant list sorted. It'll benefit your fish. In addition, up your water changes while your tank is settling. It's still a new system.
llj
I did a water change about an after after my last post, now the ammonia is at .25, so I think by tomorrow night it'll be zero. I also switched the hairgrass to the back and lobelia to the front. This weekend, assuming my ammonia will be at zero, I plan on getting more shrimp and a few ADFs, I don't think that will contribute much to the bioload as long as I only get a small group of frogs. One question, though, how do you tell the difference between ADFs and ACfs while they are small? Isn't it something with the toes? I was also thinking about kuhlie loaches, because I found a baby one in my 29g today!! *is so happy* 
Oh, and I found 2 shrimp skins, so I guess what I thought was a dead shrimp was actually the first shrimp molting.
Oh, and I found 2 shrimp skins, so I guess what I thought was a dead shrimp was actually the first shrimp molting.
Just make sure that it is zero before you buy anything. Never hurts to test the water. I'm not sure about the frogs, I think ACFs get much larger and have clawed feet, whereas ADFs stay small and don't have claws on their feet. I'm not a big frog person.
So what is your current stocking as of now?
llj
So what is your current stocking as of now?
llj
Right now, I have:
3 Amano Shrimp
4 Cherry Shrimp
1 Oto
I want more
shrimp
otos
I also want
ADFs
OR
Cories
OR
Kuhlie loaches
I'm leaning towards ADFs. I also really want a few apple snails, but my PH is acidic so I don't think it'll happen.
So my desired stocking is:
6 Amano Shrimp
6 Cherry Shrimp
6 Ghost Shrimp
6 Otos
4 ADFs
I know it kind of seems like a lot but shrimp are very low waste producers and are peaceful. Otos like to be in groups, and the one I have now seems pretty skittish so I'll get a few buddies for him. And ADFs like to be in groups as well, but will do fine in smaller groups, so I only picked four. Does anyone see any problems with this stocking?
Also, I don't mean to add them all at once, I'll probably just get a few ghost shrimp and otos this time, in another 2 weeks I'll get more amano shrimp, cherry shrimp, ghost shrimp, and otos, because I"ll only need a few of each, next time I'll get the ADFs.
3 Amano Shrimp
4 Cherry Shrimp
1 Oto
I want more
shrimp
otos
I also want
ADFs
OR
Cories
OR
Kuhlie loaches
I'm leaning towards ADFs. I also really want a few apple snails, but my PH is acidic so I don't think it'll happen.
So my desired stocking is:
6 Amano Shrimp
6 Cherry Shrimp
6 Ghost Shrimp
6 Otos
4 ADFs
I know it kind of seems like a lot but shrimp are very low waste producers and are peaceful. Otos like to be in groups, and the one I have now seems pretty skittish so I'll get a few buddies for him. And ADFs like to be in groups as well, but will do fine in smaller groups, so I only picked four. Does anyone see any problems with this stocking?
Also, I don't mean to add them all at once, I'll probably just get a few ghost shrimp and otos this time, in another 2 weeks I'll get more amano shrimp, cherry shrimp, ghost shrimp, and otos, because I"ll only need a few of each, next time I'll get the ADFs.
atmmachine816
Fish Gatherer
Tank looks pretty good
Ok, yes oto's are hard to adjust, but if they survive over a month, usually there staying in your tank
I would say no kuhlis, they perfer sand to burrow in and like being in larger groups and need some space, like the loaches, pretty much the same with the cories.
The frogs, I believe ACF have webbed feet and ADF's don't but a quick google will show. ACF's will eat your fish while the ADF's won't. ADF's produce more waste than you think, so take this into consideration when stocking your tank. They also are nearly blind and rely more on there sense of smell than sight to find food so when stocking try to avoid fish that would compete with them for food. If you see them not getting food you may have to almost hand feed them. I believe they like Frozen blood worms and need meat in there diet. Don't quote me on that.
I would say that should be your final stocking list with maybe the addition of a dwarf gourami at the most. Even though the shrimp don't produce much waste they still do. The otos produce not a lot but the adf's produce a fair amount. With that list there you should be fine though m ight want to drop the otos down to 4.
Wish you luck
Ok, yes oto's are hard to adjust, but if they survive over a month, usually there staying in your tank
I would say no kuhlis, they perfer sand to burrow in and like being in larger groups and need some space, like the loaches, pretty much the same with the cories.
The frogs, I believe ACF have webbed feet and ADF's don't but a quick google will show. ACF's will eat your fish while the ADF's won't. ADF's produce more waste than you think, so take this into consideration when stocking your tank. They also are nearly blind and rely more on there sense of smell than sight to find food so when stocking try to avoid fish that would compete with them for food. If you see them not getting food you may have to almost hand feed them. I believe they like Frozen blood worms and need meat in there diet. Don't quote me on that.
I would say that should be your final stocking list with maybe the addition of a dwarf gourami at the most. Even though the shrimp don't produce much waste they still do. The otos produce not a lot but the adf's produce a fair amount. With that list there you should be fine though m ight want to drop the otos down to 4.
Wish you luck
atmmachine816
Fish Gatherer
I'm just saying be careful with your bio-load. It's better to have to little than too much, not sure on your filter either. I think that having excess waste around helps algae grow if plants can't use it up in time, not completely sure.
atmmachine816
Fish Gatherer
O, have fun. Let us know how it goes.
Alright, I bought:
4 Ghost Shrimp
3 Otos
3 Panda Cories (for my 29g)
2 ADFs
1 MagFloat
and Algae Wafers
All of the fish and shrimp and frogs seem fine, the otos had a bit of a rough start, they didn't look too well, but they're okay now. The only bad thing is that the MagFloat was for Acrylic Aquariums, and I didn't notice until after we got home... So maybe I'll buy one online eventually. Pics coming next post.
4 Ghost Shrimp
3 Otos
3 Panda Cories (for my 29g)
2 ADFs
1 MagFloat
and Algae Wafers
All of the fish and shrimp and frogs seem fine, the otos had a bit of a rough start, they didn't look too well, but they're okay now. The only bad thing is that the MagFloat was for Acrylic Aquariums, and I didn't notice until after we got home...
So maybe I'll buy one online eventually. Pics coming next post.
SuperColey1
Planted Section
Just a little tip I found (sorry I'll bore you with the story first. lol)
I used to have a huge pest snail problem from the first plants I bought. Then I got some Riccia, which had bloody ramshorns snails in.
This meant I was continually removing the pest and ramshorns.
A few days later I noticed a trumpet snail (MTS) craling along the front of the sand, and I thought Oh not more snails. 4 weeks later and guess what.............
............virtually no pest snails, definately no ramshorns, and 3 or 4 lovely MTS.
I guess the MTS outcompete the pest and ramshorns for their food source, and the other pluses are they look good, the clean your glass, they sift your sand, and remove any excess food from the substrate, therefore no anaerobic pockets if you have sand.
Andy
I used to have a huge pest snail problem from the first plants I bought. Then I got some Riccia, which had bloody ramshorns snails in.
This meant I was continually removing the pest and ramshorns.
A few days later I noticed a trumpet snail (MTS) craling along the front of the sand, and I thought Oh not more snails. 4 weeks later and guess what.............
............virtually no pest snails, definately no ramshorns, and 3 or 4 lovely MTS.
I guess the MTS outcompete the pest and ramshorns for their food source, and the other pluses are they look good, the clean your glass, they sift your sand, and remove any excess food from the substrate, therefore no anaerobic pockets if you have sand.
Andy
The problem is, my PH is acidic. Isn't it true you can't have any snails if your PH is acidic? I don't know how, but I have pest snails in all my tanks. And the PH is acidic in all of them too. Are MTS okay in acidic water?
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