Betta*b*Happy!
Fish Crazy
sorry OA! 
)
)Selecting breed stock and
- Thread starter Betta*b*Happy!
- Start date
afireinside
A Shrine To Madness
No big. All it says in the book is: Black is not a popular color for bettas, since it is linked with a lethal gene. If two black fish mate, some of the offspring will die before hatching.
SRC
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won'
Uhmmmm....
True "Black" bettas are actaully very popular, but hard to find..since the black (or melano) females are in fact infertile, but not because of what you think....
True "Black" bettas are actaully very popular, but hard to find..since the black (or melano) females are in fact infertile, but not because of what you think....
This is the most popular type of black in bettas. In melano bettas, a mutant gene has caused the black pigment to be greatly increased in density and coverage area. The mutated gene that causes increased black color is recessive to the normal black gene. This means that if a melano betta were spawned to a normal betta that does not have the mutated black gene all of the offspring would be multicolored. These offspring would be carrying the gene for melanism, but it would not show in their coloration. These are called 'melano genos' and they are indistinguishable from normal multicolored bettas. Recessive characteristics only become visible if both parents pass down the mutant gene to their offspring. Melano females can not be used for breeding purposes, and therefore the color has to be perpetuated using females of other colors that carry the mutant gene for melano, usually iridescent (royal, steel, green) colors. Unfortunately, these crosses inevitably introduce iridescence into the body and fins of the melano fish, which is considered a fault by IBC standards
The melanophores from melanos grow very differently from that seen in black lace and wild type. They pile up and are very sticky, which is why they produce such a dense black. If you were to look closely at a melano, you would notice that they have a lot of speckling throughout their fins that that make them look so dark. These are 'balls' of melanophores. Preliminary studies have shown that these melanophores have extra adhesion proteins. One hypothesis is that these proteins are also responsible for female infertility. Melano females will produce eggs during the act of spawning like a normal female, but something happens during the hatching process that causes the fertilized egg to rupture.
Very recently, top breeder and exhibitor Connie Emery has been working crosses of Black Lace and Melano black and producing what she calls 'Double Black' - a more intense black with fertile females.
So there you are, Black Betta Lovers! Pick your favorite black, roll up your sleeves, and get to work. The true solid black Halfmoon betta is still elusive enough to be intensely sought-after, and the different lines are sufficiently challenging to keep a breeder busy for many years. Let's see who can produce the very best black!
http/bettysplendens.com/articles/page.asp?articleid=5162
Betta*b*Happy!
Fish Crazy
Thanks SRC,
That is how i had understood it initially.
That is how i had understood it initially.
JoLtNbolt
Fishaholic
oppositearmor said:
I think i read somewhere that black females are sterile... anyone else hear this?
JoLtNbolt
Fishaholic
ooops i guess i should have read all of the postings on this topic before replying ;-)
Naughtygirlrlw
Life, Love & Everything in Between
Holy Cow... I always tell people that you learn something new everyday,
and I am learning TONS!!! (poor little opaques )
and I am learning TONS!!! (poor little opaques
)
afireinside
A Shrine To Madness
Black is not a popular breeding color, forgot to mention that. I don't mean purely black, but over 90% black. The females are not sterile.
What?!? Almost everyone I know is working with black....and yes, most of the females are sterile.The only fertiles I've seen are Connies double blacks,as already mentioned. Get a new book or somethingoppositearmor said:
SRC
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won'
That's what I was thinking...I see alot of melano, black lacem black orchid, ect.... lol that's why it took me so long to finally get one..cas I couldn't ever afford one 
.
Kelly..if you come back..look in my "I've been bad thread" I got another new guy.
.Kelly..if you come back..look in my "I've been bad thread" I got another new guy
.
Booboo puppy
Fish Addict
SRC said:If I'm not mistaken that color is called Black Lace, I had a crown tail similar to that.
And he was labled as a black lace.
[snapback]885835[/snapback]
Okay, I have to have a black lace betta. Maybe I can take lessons from those who live at their parents' homes on how to sneak just one more in...I really did promise Hubby no more fish (except for the sorority tank). Other than George, they are all in Aquaview tanks. Maybe I could "hide" a matching tank in the back...
Synirr
"No one is a failure unless you try"
Nope, the CT gene and DT gene are apparently at different loci, so you can indeed have a DT CT... with long fins they look pretty shaggy though, so I'd only breed it in CT plakats, personally. CT plakats seem to be becoming more popular, but most people just don't mix tail types, it seems.Betta*b*Happy! said:Synirr,
I would love to see a DTCT. *pictures*
Would that be possible though, (not expert in genetics) i thought the CT would mask the DT gene, or am i just waaay out lol?
[snapback]886438[/snapback]
Here's a DT CT that has been up for auction on Aquabid several times now, and here's a CT plakat.
Edit: Almost forgot to say... it's not that black bettas are unpopular with breeders (far from it!), it's that they can be very difficult to breed. With true melanos the females are almost always sterile, so you have to breed a melano male to a steel blue female carrying the melano gene to get a spawn which will only yield about 50% melano fry. On top of that, if you have any colour wash whatsoever it is going to show through, so it's very difficult indeed to get a truly black betta.
Attachments
afireinside
A Shrine To Madness
Ok, aperently you want specifics. Black Half Moon Betta Females are not sterile.wuvmybetta said:What?!? Almost everyone I know is working with black....and yes, most of the females are sterile.The only fertiles I've seen are Connies double blacks,as already mentioned. Get a new book or somethingoppositearmor said:
[snapback]887284[/snapback]
Synirr
"No one is a failure unless you try"
Not true. Melano females can easily be HM, but true melano females are only very rarely fertile. Like Wuv said, the double blacks are currently the only line of truly black bettas I'm aware of that consistently produces fertile females.oppositearmor said:
Edit: Well, black lace produces fertile females too, but to me they look more grey-ish than black
Types of black bettas
From FishLore.com:
"Black/Melano: This is one of the hardest to get in its pure form, and is one of the most desirable colours to breed for in bettas. The whole body and fins are midnight black, and in its pure form, very beautiful. Males of this colour are very fertile, but a fertility problem rests in the females. It hasn’t yet been proven, but there is a link between the Melano gene and the females' reproductive system that makes them infertile. To get blacks, the best combination is to cross a Melano male to a Steel Blue female. (If she carries the gene for Melano, then you’ve got it made). It is one of the most desired colours to breed and is a challenge to keep the quality. The chances of obtaining or raising a fertile TRUE Melano female are astronomical. So if you find one, let me know ASAP.
Black Lace: In this type, the black has a more washed-out appearance. These fish are fertile, the black lace look is actually a steel blue colouration that is the result of a steel X black early in its ancestry (Probably back when our editor was born!) (Just joking Lynn.)"
afireinside
A Shrine To Madness
Oh, and the book I got, was made this year. Just listen to the post. Avoid breeding two black bettas. Then this argument popped up about black females being infertile.
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