Think I'm doing everything right - but 4 fish died in 2 weeks :( HELP please

Essjay said:

I have just searched for and found a post by Byron on fish acclimation. It is now in the 'Byron's legacy' thread, post #6

Byron's Legacy

Byron Hosking was a long standing member of the forum. He was very knowledgeable about many aspects of fish keeping with many years spent in the field researching and was always willing to share his knowledge. Many members of the forum have benefited from his expertise. Sadly Byron passed away...

www.fishforums.net

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I always error on the side of caution. Byron does state that not everybody agrees, so I will leave it at that. Whatever results in a less stressful induction into the new environment is what I will do. I checked with my two friends, and they always mix water into the holding bags before release. They both have 80 years of combined experience running fish stores, and I like their input.

I just took another look at the OP's tank image. The wood looks like spider wood.

@newaquaentusiast Where did you get this wood and am I right in that it is spider wood? If spider wood is properly harvested and prepared it is fine and I have some in my tank. However, if spider wood is not from a good source or is not properly prepared it can develop a fine hair like fungus that can be toxic. Not sure if the 'hair like filaments' are always an indication or not. It MAY be possible for the wood to be toxic without the filaments; I honestly don't know. It is actually quite common for spider wood to display these filaments when introduced and are almost always benign. Still there are cases when this is not benign and can easily kill fish.

Other names for spider wood are the following and I'm sure that there are more:
Azalea Roots
Rhododendron Root
Indian Spider Wood
Red Spider Wood

Fishfunn said:

We need to know more water parameters: what are the pH, KH, and GH.

Also, just so you know, do this procedure when adding fish to a new aquarium to prevent pH and water parameter shock:
The proper acclimation of new fish to a tank is very important for their immune system. After acclimating the water temperature in the holding bag to the tank water, add 1/2 cup of tank water into the holding bag every 10 minutes until it’s full. This ensures that no water parameter shock is done to the fish after release into their new tank water.

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This was the method recommended by the store, and that's what I did...
Only difference is - they told me, after filling the bag - to pour it all with the fish into the tank...

I don't have the products to check those parameters, are they necessary?

Naughts said:

Water conditions appear ok and salifert test kits are fine IME.
I always use the plop and drop transfer of fish, after temperature equalising, as this avoids the risk of converting ammonium to ammonia. It gets the fish out of the dirty water into clean water quickly.
The yellow glo tetra on the right looks to have a cloudy eye and red gill. Can you get another photo of it?

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Checked the conditions again today,
no ammonia, no nitrite's and roughly 20PPM nitrate...

One more fish died.....

Photo attached, can't seem to see anything wrong...

jaylach said:

I just took another look at the OP's tank image. The wood looks like spider wood.

@newaquaentusiast Where did you get this wood and am I right in that it is spider wood? If spider wood is properly harvested and prepared it is fine and I have some in my tank. However, if spider wood is not from a good source or is not properly prepared it can develop a fine hair like fungus that can be toxic. Not sure if the 'hair like filaments' are always an indication or not. It MAY be possible for the wood to be toxic without the filaments; I honestly don't know. It is actually quite common for spider wood to display these filaments when introduced and are almost always benign. Still there are cases when this is not benign and can easily kill fish.

Other names for spider wood are the following and I'm sure that there are more:
Azalea Roots
Rhododendron Root
Indian Spider Wood
Red Spider Wood

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It is in fact Natural Spider wood bought from the fish store...

It had white 'hair' on for a few day's, the Molly's ate it as I was told they will - they are fine and not the ones who died...

---------
So the store said I might have some thing in the water killing and recommended Methylene Blue or similar,
bought a natural expellant for bacterial disease by Micro-lift, hope it helps...

Does your tap water have chloramines? A past member had fish die mysteriously after water changes, and he determined it was due to chloramines in his water. The fix was adding twice the dosage of the dechlorinator to properly neutralize chloramines when doing water changes.

Fishfunn said:

Does your tap water have chloramines? A past member had fish die mysteriously after water changes, and he determined it was due to chloramines in his water. The fix was adding twice the dosage of the dechlorinator to properly neutralize chloramines when doing water changes.

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No, according the municipal website, it doesn't, just a relatively high nitrate level and the regular 'stuff' needed to preserve the water

Did my second 40% water change this week (recommended by the store owner to double up on water changes as long as fish are dying) and put in 2 doses of the anti bacteria liquid so far,

not enough time yet, but so far so good

newaquaentusiast said:

bought a natural expellant for bacterial disease by Micro-lift, hope it helps...

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What did you buy exactly?
if it is the products in the earlier photo they are not disease treatments. One is a de-chlorinator for the water and one is beneficial bacteria for the filter cycle. As you are reporting no ammonia and no nitrite there are sufficient beneficial bacteria already in the tank. These, and the water changes, are not a problem, the latter being of value.
But they are not medications so you are not treating internal bacteria pathogens with these.

Naughts said:

What did you buy exactly?
if it is the products in the earlier photo they are not disease treatments. One is a de-chlorinator for the water and one is beneficial bacteria for the filter cycle. As you are reporting no ammonia and no nitrite there are sufficient beneficial bacteria already in the tank. These, and the water changes, are not a problem, the latter being of value.
But they are not medications so you are not treating internal bacteria pathogens with these.

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You are absolutely right,
I bought a third bottle, based on store recommendation, to use 3 ML a day for 10 days. Photo attached.


By the way, sorry for the stupid question !
Which of the two previous bottles is the de-chlorinator? (the one labeled 1 or 2 in white marker on the bottle?) ergo the one I need to use at water changes...? embarrassed to say I am already a bit confused.. lol
I'm assuming it's water conditioner, right? Just to save face
Although, I once heard that when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me... Just saying...

newaquaentusiast said:

You are absolutely right,
I bought a third bottle, based on store recommendation, to use 3 ML a day for 10 days. Photo attached.


By the way, sorry for the stupid question !
Which of the two previous bottles is the de-chlorinator? (the one labeled 1 or 2 in white marker on the bottle?) ergo the one I need to use at water changes...? embarrassed to say I am already a bit confused.. lol
I'm assuming it's water conditioner, right? Just to save face
Although, I once heard that when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me... Just saying...

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From what I can gather this is a herbal medicine, can't easily find information on ingredients online but am assuming it has the ingredients listed on the bottle? Never heard of it before so can't speak to it's effectiveness.

newaquaentusiast said:

By the way, sorry for the stupid question !
Which of the two previous bottles is the de-chlorinator? (the one labeled 1 or 2 in white marker on the bottle?) ergo the one I need to use at water changes...? embarrassed to say I am already a bit confused.. lol
I'm assuming it's water conditioner, right?

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Yes, the water conditioner is the de-chlorinator. Labelled number 1.
It is fine to use this until it runs out but then I would see if you can get one without the ammonia remover, simply because you have a cycled tank with no ammonia, so it is superfluous.

The manufacturers create huge ranges of products and try to complicate things so you buy more things than you need, or continue using things when they are no longer necessary. Hence the confusion - your question is valid and we all struggle with the marketing hype.

Lcc86 said:

From what I can gather this is a herbal medicine, can't easily find information on ingredients online but am assuming it has the ingredients listed on the bottle? Never heard of it before so can't speak to it's effectiveness.

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Here is what I found online:

Details​

Microbe Lift Artemiss Salt & Freshwater Water Treatment is a 100% natural expellant for bacterial diseases. It’s a chemical-free, herbal treatment that is effective against a variety of fish illnesses including bacterial dropsy, bulging eyes, fungus, ulcers, mouth rot and raised scales. Plus, there is less risk of your fish building up resistance to this treatment, which can occur with chemicals and antibiotics.​

• Herbal, immune-enhancing stimulant helps reduce bacterial and fungal infections in fish.
• Less risk of building up future resistance.
• Helps drive disease-causing bacteria off your fish.
• Stimulates and accelerates healing of damaged tissue.
• Chemical-free treatment.

Specifications

newaquaentusiast said:

Here is what I found online:

Details​

Microbe Lift Artemiss Salt & Freshwater Water Treatment is a 100% natural expellant for bacterial diseases. It’s a chemical-free, herbal treatment that is effective against a variety of fish illnesses including bacterial dropsy, bulging eyes, fungus, ulcers, mouth rot and raised scales. Plus, there is less risk of your fish building up resistance to this treatment, which can occur with chemicals and antibiotics.​

• Herbal, immune-enhancing stimulant helps reduce bacterial and fungal infections in fish.
• Less risk of building up future resistance.
• Helps drive disease-causing bacteria off your fish.
• Stimulates and accelerates healing of damaged tissue.
• Chemical-free treatment.

Specifications

Item Number	294791
Weight	10.72 ounces
Dimensions	2 x 2 x 6.25 inches
Made In	United States
Sourced From	United States
Aquarium Type	Freshwater, Saltwater
Fish Type	Tropical Freshwater, Marine Fish, Goldfish, Marine Invertebrate, Cichlid
Product Form	Liquid

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Yeah I saw similar but none of this actually seems to state what the ingredients are. I don't think I would want to dose my tank with something if I didn't know what was in it but hopefully as it is herbal it's nothing crazy.

Lcc86 said:

Yeah I saw similar but none of this actually seems to state what the ingredients are. I don't think I would want to dose my tank with something if I didn't know what was in it but hopefully as it is herbal it's nothing crazy.

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Also it is never a good idea to medicate a tank in any way unless you actually know what the issue happens to be as even herbal stuff could possibly cause more harm than good.

Also, with the claims, I would suspect that aloe may be an ingredient which is actually detrimental to fish as it builds up in the gills. Aloe being included is exactly why I won't use Stress CXoat as a water conditioner.

Hey all,

Just wanted to say thanks and update the situation:

Been a good week + since the last fish passed,

The remaining 8 look very good, happy and swimming around joyfully

Did another test today and decided to not even go about my weekly water change as all the parameters are perfect (pics. attached) -

this is as I have decided to RE-SCAPE the tank (slightly {to rectify a few beginner mistakes - such as substrate is not higher in the back end which everybody seems to be doing}) which I will do in a few days so will probably do a WC then.

Bought a beautiful piece of drift wood from my LFS and have been boiling it for a day now!

Only fits half way in my biggest pan so been doing it half and half ... ALOT of work...

I want to take some of the high plants to the back of the tank (didn't think about this at my first setup...).

And create a nice new hiding spot with a few new rocks!

I guess I will have to buy PURIGEN and add to my external filter as the water is still brown in the pan after many hours of boiling and switching and it doesn't seem to go away...

I understand tannins are good for the fish??

But I like crystal clear water - so PURIGEN should do the trick, right?
AND NOT HARM MY LIVE PLANTS AND NUTREINTS, correct?

Thanks again for all your help.
YOU KNOW IT IS A TRULY AMAZAING HOBBY WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HELP A BEGINEERS THEY DON'T KNOW....

THANKS

I use Purigen and it doesn't harm plants. It helps to remove nitrogenous organic waste so the water can get clearer and is rechargeable too.

Naughts said:

Yes, the water conditioner is the de-chlorinator. Labelled number 1.
It is fine to use this until it runs out but then I would see if you can get one without the ammonia remover, simply because you have a cycled tank with no ammonia, so it is superfluous.

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I thought the OP said there was around 20ppm of ammonia in the tap water. If so, I would suggest to keep using the conditioner that removes ammonia. I have some in my tap water and use API Ammo Lock for my water conditioner on all water changes.