Julio Cory dying?

Here’s his funky death roll thing… may not be velvet, but there’s something wrong. I’m hoping he’ll recover, but the odds aren’t great, in my opinion…. In case your wondering, he was a perfectly normal swimmer until this morning, when I saw him rolled over and then did one of these to get air at the top of the tank. Any suggestions as to what’s wrong? I don’t think he’s trying to scratch himself on anything like if he had velvet or ich…

PygmyPepperJulli said:

Here’s his funky death roll thing… may not be velvet, but there’s something wrong. I’m hoping he’ll recover, but the odds aren’t great, in my opinion…. In case your wondering, he was a perfectly normal swimmer until this morning, when I saw him rolled over and then did one of these to get air at the top of the tank. Any suggestions as to what’s wrong? I don’t think he’s trying to scratch himself on anything like if he had velvet or ich…

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He looks like he is suffering, I think it's kindest to euthanise.

It has an infection in the brain. This can be from a virus, bacteria or protozoan infection and protozoan are the most common in freshwater fish. Once the fish starts doing that there is no cure and it should be euthanise asap. Cleaning the tank conditions up and adding salt for 2 weeks normally stops any other fish getting it.

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Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens so any medication (if needed) will work more effectively on the fish.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 2 weeks. The Corydoras will be fine with it for the 2 weeks.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Just to add, as the fish is new, you could show the video to the store and see if they can refund you. If they offer a replacement fish instead, don't accept one from the same batch.

He died.
At this rate, I don’t think I’ll have to worry about overstocking for long.

Thanks for all the info Colin.
I vacuum the substrate ever time I do a water change, but as it is planted I rarely can get around the back. I’ll move some stuff to make sure I can.

I believe we have pool salt at our house, but is that the same dosage you recommend? That seems like a lot of salt, especially for Cories, which I have been told are very sensitive do to their lack of scales. When you say ‘keep the salt levels like this’ do you mean don’t do any waterchanges for the next 2 weeks, or do them with the same amount of salt? And when you say ‘Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week’, do you been do both, or just the gravel vac? My parents might not let me use that much water…. Actually, pretty certain they won’t…

How will I be able to tell if I need to double the dose? No-one else has symptoms yet… if this Cory has it, are they likely to all have one, or was it because he had a weakened immune system?

Won’t doing all of that at once get rid of most of the beneficial bacteria as well, since they live on the glass, in the filter etc.?

Also, was this started by bad tank conditions? (I feel like a pretty crummy fish keeper right about now). Or was it a thing from the store? Could I have fixed the other one (that is now dead)?

Thanks, and hopefully the store’ll give me a refund (then again, they probably won’t)

PygmyPepperJulli said:

He died.
At this rate, I don’t think I’ll have to worry about overstocking for long.

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Sorry you lost him. Are you able to upload pics of the tank and the remaining fish?

Couldn’t get all of them together… But now my pygmy Cory is looking really pale, breathing kinda rapidly and his tail is clamped… oh no please no not again… do I remove? Or start treatment immediately? I do NOT want to lose 3 fish in 3 days.

I did a maybe 65-75% water change and moved all the plants around to vacuum around them. Also cleaned the filters (one of them had so much stuff all the water I was washing it with turned brown, but I think that was from the beneficial bacteria) and wiped down the sides of the tank (Before the wc). Am adding 2 tablespoons of salt now (for 10 gal) but level not heaped because I am afraid of overdosing. I’ll see how things are by the end of today.

Pool salt is rock salt and is fine to use.

If you can't do a big water change and gravel clean every day, do a big water change once a week. Add salt to the tank now. When you do another water change next week, and salt to the new water at the same dose rate it is in the aquarium so the salt level in the tank remains the same.
eg you take out 20 litres of water, treat the new 20 litres with salt before putting it in the tank.

Established filters should be cleaned at least once a month. An established filter is one that has been cycled and is more than 2 months old.

PygmyPepperJulli said:

I did a maybe 65-75% water change and moved all the plants around to vacuum around them. Also cleaned the filters (one of them had so much stuff all the water I was washing it with turned brown, but I think that was from the beneficial bacteria) and wiped down the sides of the tank (Before the wc). Am adding 2 tablespoons of salt now (for 10 gal) but level not heaped because I am afraid of overdosing. I’ll see how things are by the end of today.

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Your filter will struggle more in an overstocked tank so may get gunky more quickly so keep an eye on it, it may need more regular cleaning. Hopefully the salt treatment will help.

Looking at your pictures, do you have gravel substrate or sand? Cories need fine sand but I can't quite tell what yours is. Also there is a theory I've learned since joining this forum that black substrate is very stressful for fish, I wouldn't touch it now while you have illness in the tank as they're already likely to be stressed but something to consider changing in future.

Lcc86- It’s very fine and non-sharp gravel (the Cories seem to like it, forage around in it and don’t have damaged whiskers or anything). I never heard that black substrate stresses fish, I’ve heard that it might actually be calming or have no affect at all and only really picked it to make the fish and plants pop (you know what I mean). Once this is over, I might try adding some lighter sand on top if you suggest.

I’ve only cleaned my filter maybe 3 times since establishing the tank, so that’s something else I’ve messed up in (I feel like such an idiot). It wasn’t really gunky as such, at least (like it wasn’t sludge) it was more made up of tiny brown particles which I thought was the beneficial bacterial.

Thanks for that about the salt, Colin, I put it in this morning. I won’t be able to do large wc every day like you said, but I should be able to do another 60-70% on Wednesday and another one next Sunday, and then do the daily 10% as suggested and then back to normal.

The other fish (peppers, neons and remaining julii (I’m going to keep calling them that, it’ s easier)) all seem to be fine, but that said I haven’t seen any pygmies this afternoon (not unusual, they like playing and snoozing in the plants up the back during the day and only really come at the front at night and feeding time, but I’m more than a bit worried about the pale one). I’ll edit and add pic if it comes around to the front.

Would paleness be sign of a parasite? Maybe stress? (I don’t want to lose any more fish, so any suggestions of even vague or general treatments or disease suggestions is welcome). Would adding salt to the aquarium help if it was stress? (The only reason I can think of as to why it’s stressed is I moved a bunch of stuff around yesterday trying to get the substrate completely clean)

Thanks again (and sorry if I’m being a pain)

Edit- the sick Cory still hasn’t shown up… the girl Pygmy (I have 1 girl 2 boys) swam around the front earlier and disappeared again (perfectly healthy) so hopefully it’s just sleeping or something…

If a fish loses colour (goes pale) that is bad.

Fish breathing heavily or gasping at the surface or near a filter outlet is an emergency. Test the water quality and do a big water change. If you just did a water change before the fish started gasping, treat the entire tank with a double dose of dechlorinater and increase aeration surface turbulence immediately. Chlorine or chloramine poisoning is unlikely to be an issue for the OP because they use rain water but for other people reading this, add dechlorinater to any new tap water before you add the water to an aquarium containing livestock.

Fish suddenly bloating up (getting fat overnight) and not eating is usually a death sentence.

If fish rub on objects in the tank that is usually caused by an external protozoan infection like white spot or velvet, but can also be caused by Costia, Chilodonella or Trichodina (external protozoa). Chemicals in the water can also cause fish to rub but it's uncommon. These last 3 protozoan parasites usually cause cream, white or grey patches on the body in addition to rubbing on things in the tank. Post 1 & 16 of the following link have info on white spot. Velvet is treated the same way as white spot but tends to hand around longer so treatment can take longer unless you use copper or Malachite Green.

If fish get any cream, white or grey patches on their body or fins that is normally an external protozoan infection (Costia, Chilodonella, Trichodina) and can be treated with clean water and salt. Protozoan infections are common in dirty tanks that have a lot of gunk in the substrate and or filter. Cleaning the substrate and filter regularly, and doing a big (75%) water change each week will usually prevent these infections in fish.

If fish get a creamy white film over their entire body (head, eyes and fins included), that is excess mucous produced by the fish, and is caused by something in the water irritating them (usually ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, incorrect pH or poisoning from something). Test the water. Doing a huge water change and gravel clean normally fixes it.

Stringy white poop is bad and can be an internal bacterial infection, internal protozoan infection, or intestinal worms. You can read more about that at the following link.

If fish get red sores that is usually bacterial and treatment needs to start asap.

White fluffy hair like growths on a small area or wound on a fish is Saprolegnia fungus, which gains entry to the fish by an open wound. Salt can treat it easily but you need to start treatment asap. That applies to all diseases, if a fish gets sick or looks off colour, start a new thread asap and get pictures and or video on here immediately. The sooner you identify the problem and start treatment, the more chance of the fish surviving.

At the top of the emergency section of this forum are 4 stickies (threads that don't move) and some of these links are there.

Thanks for all that Colin. The problem is (when I last saw it, it still hasn't come back out...) It didn't have any of those symptoms (it might have had white stringy poop, I didn't see it poop). It might have been breathing slightly heavier than usual, but it was just sitting on a leaf looking much paler than usual and having a moderately clamped tail. I would have said it had a thicker mucous coat due to the salt, but I saw it before I started salt treatment, and the eyes or fins both seemed normal... I'll see if I can find it (I'll move around all the plants at the back) and if not, I'll have to assume it's 1. Dead and eaten, 2. Stuck in the filter, or 3. Really good at hiding. It is some comfort that the other healthy male is still missing though... unless it's sick a well...

I've already done what I can do from the medical thread (wipe down glass, do a large gravel vacc-ed wc, added salt, clean filter media) yesterday, so I'll have to wait and see.

Well... I found it.

It's not dead, but not moving much either, pretty sure it won't last the day. Another internal infection? It's incredibly skinny, still pale, not moving and won't eat food, but other than that it's like it's dying from malnutrition. Ideas? Or euthanize?

How can I stop this going around the tank? Once again, everything else (including the other 2 pygmies, they both came out this morning) is fine, but that's what I said the last two times, so I bet one of the peppers is going to be struck down next to even out all the numbers. I feel like it's going to kill all my fish one by one... 3 down, lots to go. I've already taken as many steps as this thread's suggested and am doing a 50-75% wc this afternoon as well, so I honestly don't know what else to do. I feel like such a bad fish parent.

pictures and video of the fish so we can try to identify diseases.

clean water and salt.

make sure the fish get fed a varied diet including frozen foods like prawn