Do American cichlids work the same as Africans for aggression control?

itiwhetu said:

Basically, all Cichlids like a crowd

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I just learned something. I was going to chime in and say that South American cichlids were territorial and guardians of their space because I've seen some awful cichlids fights on a few occasions that only ended when they were separated. You ought to see a Jack Dempsey and a Convict throw down. Not for the squeamish.

Byron said:

I made an observation a few months back concerning multiple species of neotropical cichlids being in the same tank. In case some new members don't recognize "neotropical," it refers to species native to the tropical areas in the new world--South and Central America, Mexico and southern USA).

None of these cichlids live together in nature. That is a profound point, because it means they never come into conflict with other similarly-territorial minded cichlids. And that alone has a significant impact on their well-being.

Most of them should never be combined with other cichlid species. Exception is some of the dwarf species, in suitably-sized tanks. But as Neale Monks has advised, keeping Firemouth Cichlid(s) in with any of the more robust cichlids is cruel; the Firemouth is a much "gentler" cichlid and deserves better. As just one example, not suggesting this species is mentioned here.

The East African rift lake species is a totally different ballgame, as other members have previous well explained in this thread.

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Really interesting points here and some ways of thinking that I've not heard before. I think one thing I wasn't sure on though was that none of these species live together in the wild which isn't exactly true. I suppose it brings in what Gary E said that there is no such thing as a 'cichlid' (technically theres no such thing as a fish but thats a different matter haha). Centrals (anything north of Panama) and Souths (anything south of Panama) shouldn't mix but within those two groups there are a lot of species that do coexist in the wild and that can be kept in aquariums together - eg Severums and Geophagus/ Satanoperca are not unusual or in the bigger lakes of Central America you get interesting relationships between species like Nicaraguans, Neetroplus and Dovii (which is truly fascinating). Equally though within both regions there are mixes that should always be avoided - eg Firemouths and Jaguars, but that comes down to a degree of planning not to mix predatory cichlids with non predatory or predatory but we do see it.

To be fair to Amy I don't think the mix here is out of the question in a suitably sized tank - if it was being planned from scratch I'd have swapped the Convicts for an other 'Cryptoheros' (in old money) species like Cutteri or Nanoluteus and probably encouraged single specimens over pairs.

I think the thing with cichlids - especially new worlds / neotropicals is that it can go wrong and in unexpected ways I had a group of Laetacara Thayeri once and they were so timid then 2 paired up and it was horrendous!

Wills

Yeah I’ve just caught up on all of this, interesting reads and some food for thought

Also for @Wills and anyone else that cares lol, my name is Kieran, Amy is my wife, dunno why I chose the username that name round

To confuse you guys I guess lol

AmyKieran said:

Yeah I’ve just caught up on all of this, interesting reads and some food for thought

Also for @Wills and anyone else that cares lol, my name is Kieran, Amy is my wife, dunno why I chose the username that name round

To confuse you guys I guess lol

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Ah my apologies I thought your name was Amy Kieran haha

Wills said:

Ah my apologies I thought your name was Amy Kieran haha

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Nah I’m Kieran. The cooler one

I keep a number of South/central American species, often with a number of species to each tank. It is all about space. They don't want to be crowded, they want a territory for themselves. There are many "new world" cichlids that get on fine, there are others that are just big brutes(ie convicts, jack dempsey, True Parrot cichlids who should be a species only tank). Species who like to shoal still want space to themselves as well. My Geo Tapajos are very peaceful but they still have a pecking order. Space makes peace with New world Cichlids. They are fun fish, it has to be done with care to keep them however as when it goes wrong, it usually goes really wrong.

AmyKieran said:

Also for @Wills and anyone else that cares lol, my name is Kieran, Amy is my wife, dunno why I chose the username that name round

To confuse you guys I guess lol

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You did it because you are a good boy. The misses always comes first, even in your name on a forum

I prefer to keep south American cichlids in pairs, either on their own or in a community tank, rather than having a bunch of cichlids in the same tank.

If you want a number of central American cichlids, get species that grow to a similar size and only have 1 of each species. Try to keep all males or all females so they don't breed.

My success with the Severums was due to the fact they were all related to each other, we don't fully understand the bonds between Mum, Dad and the kids.

Or these guys as well

You can do remarkable things in small spaces, if you understand what you are dealing with.

Now I’ve had a thought after reading,

Now do you think it would be possible to keep this tank with a pair of cichlids , either the convicts or parrots, both of which are small (under 2 inch) and then put in some ditherfish for the space at the top of the tank. The tank is higher than longer which yes in heinsite was not great choice. But I’m thinking a pair of the, let’s call them, smaller cichlids at the bottom and maybe some livebearers at the top? Then as soon as said cichlid becomes bigger, take to pet shop and get the smaller version again

I know I actually googled this last night and saw @Wills helping someone out in 2013 with this exact problem and I believe he recommended guppies, but that was being kept with rams instead of my cichlids

Any thoughts?

Hmmm 2013 was a long time ago haha I hope I wasnt recommending Rams and Guppies! Things have moved on since then though lol.

The set up you have suggested sounds good - I would go for the Convicts over the Parrots, possibly the Ellioti could work but Convicts feel better for the footprint. But Ellioti would be better with tank mates. Parrots are just not for me so bit biased there, but they also can get quite big and should really be in a 4 foot tank.

@AquaBarb has a similar set up with his Ellioti and some Swordtails but I think his are in a 3 foot 125 litre tank.

Wills

No to guppies and convict cichlids.

If you want dither fish, you need something that is big enough to withstand the bullying and aggression from the cichlids, and you need a tank big enough for those dither fish.

What are the tank dimensions (length x width x height)?

What is the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your water supply?
This information can usually be obtained from your water supply company's website or by telephoning them. If they can't help you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and get them to test it for you. Write the results down (in numbers) when they do the tests. And ask them what the results are in (eg: ppm, dGH, or something else).

Tank size is -

45 cm side to side
53cm top to bottom
38 cm front to back

Gh - 8
Kh - 3
Ph - 7

I may have just measured that wrong because I’m half asleep, I’ve remember doing measurements and it’s 110, it’s defo not a 90l tank. I’ll measure again when I’m more awake lol

But the point being it’s much taller then it is wider

I’m also thinking maybe swapping out convicts entirely for rams, then having live bearers