Pls help my guppies are dying

Al1ce · May 1, 2020

Martyn87 said:
Now you had another fish die I would water change again. How many fish are left? I would keep on doing bigger water changes everyday this week and then scale back over the next week or two. If the fish are responding positively to water changes then that's good news.

Can we get an update on your tank test?

My water is Ph 6.8 and GH 6 out the tap and I use replenish from seachem to raise the GH, and the above posts are right, the PH follows. I then use an alkaline buffer to raise carbonate hardness to keep it there. You can increase GH cheaply and easily with epsom salts, baking soda and table salt however I haven't gone down this route as I have a easy supply of the aforementioned product. I'm pretty sure that Marine Buffer would likely raise the GH as well, can you confirm the manufacturer? I have tried the shells and crushed coral before and the buffering is so slow I wouldn't go down that route if you need to make a big GH movement.

The water isn't optimal for Guppys if you could get the water to 10 Gh and slightly alkaline that would be better.

I notice there seems to be some plant matter or other material on the surface, what is it? Could you also do a full tank pic.

Can you confirm your normal maintenance process and what you feed?

If you can answer the above we can then we can consider course of action.

Hi thank you for your reply I lost another fish today a young one, I completed the 3 day course of Esha 2000 I have done a 75% water change today, Iv put some pictures of what I use when doing water change just fish health optima and ph raise which I gradually increase, I noticed on my white guppy who is my oldest guppy, he has some red scraping dots on his scales, Previously you asked what the plant matter was on the surface, this was just fine guppy fry food, I actually ran out of feed previously so I mum passed me a cheap flake food which I have now threw out as my new flakes arrived from amazon yesterday, aquarium nutrition tropical flake food, I have assassin snails, and 2 Cory Dora and few plant snails I’m keeping on top of, I usually have more fresh plants but with fisheries closed I have not been able to get anymore yet, a question I wanted to ask is if it was a parasite can these still live in snail lava ? Or are they killed during treatment? here are my water details-

NO3- 20
NO2- 0
GH- 8
KH- 6
PH- 7.6
Cl2- 0

Al1ce · May 1, 2020

I forgot to mention I also put two aquarium natural bacteria balls in also, and I have some aquarium salt I don’t add in anymore because I think it’s why I was getting a high NO3 but I’m thinking will it help my white fish heal ? It’s hard to count with them swimming around I would guess around 25 in a 100 ltr tank, I have added new sand to the tank now I’m not sure if I was suppose to remove old sand or leave it in as a substrate but it’s darker on the bottom.

FishGuest5123 · May 1, 2020

I hate to just jump in here but have been reading the posts. You are adding quite a bit of different things to your water. That in itself can be killing your fish. It is better to get rid of the fish and buy fish that are compatible to your water chemistry. Adding chemicals, buffers, etc. to your tank is never a good thing and usually a recipe for disaster. Many of us learned the hard way. Some fish just can’t be kept in our water chemistry no matter how much we like them. I learned this with green neons. They were incompatible with my tap water and I lost an entire group over the course of months. I hope all works out for you.

angelcraze · May 1, 2020

I'm only piping in to say I noticed some weird bulges in the upper abdomen of the surviving fish so you are on the right path with internal parasites given the white poop. It gets so difficult trying to diagnose because white poop usually means internal parasite, but also could be infection or constipation. But given the bloating, the upper abdominal bulge and white poop, I think we can safely guess parasites.

Increasing GH will boots the fishes' immune to kick the parasites. I use Seachem Equilibrium (maybe not available in UK) but epsom salts and rift lake salts work as well. Once you increase GH, keep it there by remineralizing new water when you change it. It's much easier to start with soft water and go harder then to try to strip GH away for soft water fish. On the other hand, keeping hard water fish in soft water is very detrimental because they don't get the minerals they need to breathe properly, whereas most soft water fish can easier adapt to harder water.

Good luck

Al1ce · May 1, 2020

Deanasue said:
I hate to just jump in here but have been reading the posts. You are adding quite a bit of different things to your water. That in itself can be killing your fish. It is better to get rid of the fish and buy fish that are compatible to your water chemistry. Adding chemicals, buffers, etc. to your tank is never a good thing and usually a recipe for disaster. Many of us learned the hard way. Some fish just can’t be kept in our water chemistry no matter how much we like them. I learned this with green neons. They were incompatible with my tap water and I lost an entire group over the course of months. I hope all works out for you.

I’m sorry but I don’t find this supporting getting rid of my fish and starting over, if I can mention I don’t use all those added things they are just what I have, I only got the ph raise because it was suggested my water is too soft, Adding some fish optima and friendly bacteria isn’t a lot, Iv had the fish almost a year and they bred and were born in soft water, all I have been trying to do is improve my knowledge and quality I offer my fish, I have two children with Autism who love their fish and there is no way I would kill them without trying to save them, but thank you for taking the time to help out.

Al1ce · May 1, 2020

angelcraze said:
I'm only piping in to say I noticed some weird bulges in the upper abdomen of the surviving fish so you are on the right path with internal parasites given the white poop. It gets so difficult trying to diagnose because white poop usually means internal parasite, but also could be infection or constipation. But given the bloating, the upper abdominal bulge and white poop, I think we can safely guess parasites.

Increasing GH will boots the fishes' immune to kick the parasites. I use Seachem Equilibrium (maybe not available in UK) but epsom salts and rift lake salts work as well. Once you increase GH, keep it there by remineralizing new water when you change it. It's much easier to start with soft water and go harder then to try to strip GH away for soft water fish. On the other hand, keeping hard water fish in soft water is very detrimental because they don't get the minerals they need to breathe properly, whereas most soft water fish can easier adapt to harder water.

Good luck

Thanks you your reply I can gradually raise the gh and hope it helps raise their immunity, they are much happier maybe the Esha 2000 has worked also

JuiceBox52 · May 1, 2020

If you want to keep hard water fish change the substrate to one that is made for rift lake cichlids. It will harden the water. Changing the ph will do nothing but make it fluctuate which can harm the fish, of you harden the water the ph will follow.

If you harden the water you will have to only keep hard water fish.

Essjay · May 1, 2020

Chemicals marketed to raise the pH don't usually increase hardness, and it is hard water which guppies need. You can either use a Rift Lake substrate as JuiceBox suggested or add Rift lake salts to the water. Both of these will increase hardness, and the pH will follow.
If the pH raising product is the Seachem Marine Buffer, that does contain calcium and magnesium (the hardness minerals) but it would be better to use a product intended for fresh water fish rather than marine fish.

Are you using the aquarium salt routinely? While guppies can tolerate salt, they don't need it on a routine basis.

Al1ce · May 1, 2020

JuiceBox52 said:
If you want to keep hard water fish change the substrate to one that is made for rift lake cichlids. It will harden the water. Changing the ph will do nothing but make it fluctuate which can harm the fish, of you harden the water the ph will follow.

If you harden the water you will have to only keep hard water fish.

Thank you I can certainly take your advice on board and look for a more natural way you suggest just previously I’m told to up my ph try this or use that is what I’m told, maybe it’s what got me here I don’t know, like I previously said I had over 30 guppy fry born into soft water with no problems, surly they adapt to the water they are born into I’m not sure, maybe I shouldn’t of started to raise the ph in the first place, or maybe my fish were just hit hard with a parasite, but I am doing all I can to deal with this and taking everyone’s advice on board to do so, something Iv gradually noticed is some curves in spines, and told to remove these which I did, I think I will try reverting back to my usual Soft water quality Without the ph raise and see how things go, because they were much happier. I just Dnt know what to do for the best, could be worrying about it to much also.

JuiceBox52 · May 1, 2020

Al1ce said:
Thank you I can certainly take your advice on board and look for a more natural way you suggest just previously I’m told to up my ph try this or use that is what I’m told, maybe it’s what got me here I don’t know, like I previously said I had over 30 guppy fry born into soft water with no problems, surly they adapt to the water they are born into I’m not sure, maybe I shouldn’t of started to raise the ph in the first place, or maybe my fish were just hit hard with a parasite, but I am doing all I can to deal with this and taking everyone’s advice on board to do so, something Iv gradually noticed is some curves in spines, and told to remove these which I did, I think I will try reverting back to my usual Soft water quality Without the ph raise and see how things go, because they were much happier. I just Dnt know what to do for the best, could be worrying about it to much also.

The fry dont adapt, they may live a month or two longer than the adults but their bodies arent made for soft water

FishGuest5123 · May 1, 2020

Al1ce said:
I’m sorry but I don’t find this supporting getting rid of my fish and starting over, if I can mention I don’t use all those added things they are just what I have, I only got the ph raise because it was suggested my water is too soft, Adding some fish optima and friendly bacteria isn’t a lot, Iv had the fish almost a year and they bred and were born in soft water, all I have been trying to do is improve my knowledge and quality I offer my fish, I have two children with Autism who love their fish and there is no way I would kill them without trying to save them, but thank you for taking the time to help out.

@Al1ce I’m sorry, but I didn’t say to kill them and certainly don’t condone such treatment. I apologize if it came across like that. What I meant was to take them to your lfs for possible trade or to give them to someone who could provide the proper conditions for them. We suggest this quite often when fish aren’t compatible with water conditions and I just assumed you knew what I meant. Again, I do apologize for the confusion.

Martyn87 · May 1, 2020

You need to take this one step at a time.

We've done the water changes which has been positive. You've used esha 200 now twice and were still seeing issues so it many not be bacterial if you are still seeing bloating. Are you still seeing bloated fish?

If any more fish die you need to do a big water change again.

angelcraze said:
I'm only piping in to say I noticed some weird bulges in the upper abdomen of the surviving fish so you are on the right path with internal parasites given the white poop. It gets so difficult trying to diagnose because white poop usually means internal parasite, but also could be infection or constipation. But given the bloating, the upper abdominal bulge and white poop, I think we can safely guess its parasites.

Good luck

I think angel craze is on the right path.

If the fish are also still bloated and dying and you are seeing the white stringy excrement then I would treat for a parasitic infection. Before you do though give the fish a few days to settle and gather their strength. Do you feed live food?

Your substrate is really deep which can allow bacterial deposits to build up in anaerobic areas. If this gets disturbed it can really be damaging to the fish. Be sure to keep up the good tank husbandry.

Finally the other posts are broadly right that keeping fish in water that doesn't suite their anatomy will cause issues and shorten lifespans. Guppies are hard water fish so any new water that goes into you tank needs to be a min GH 10 really for them to be comfortable. I use seachem replenish to do exactly this as well as coral in my filter and an alkaline buffer to ensure the gh is stable.

We can review this though when the fish are safe.

Al1ce · May 2, 2020

Thanks for the reply one had signs of dropsy last night it was like a pine cone and bloated so I removed it from the tank, the others are pooping fine no more stringy poo I also did another water change this morning, I also use the sachem product to raise ph I have a box full of sea shells we collected last year, can I crush these in my mortar and pestle I can put them in the back compartment for a natural calcium, I don’t want other fish I want guppies kids love them I’m sure I can keep up with the water balance with all the advice here, but if they keep dying then ofc I will just let nature take it’s course and end my hobby, but not without trying first, bare in mind I had them for almost a year and no probs defo think it was a parasite, so far all is good thank you.

Martyn87 · May 2, 2020

right Alice number 1 lesson forget PH. Ph is a by product of the minerals in the aquarium. The general hardness (GH) is the total dissolved minerals in the water. Some fish need harder water to get the minerals they need others need soft. The process is osmoregulation so in essence the passage of water and minerals across a membrane. With soft water (water with low minerals) the mineral loving fish will not be able to get all the minerals from the water it needs. Thus health and immune resistance diminishes.

To maintain the gh in the 12ish region you need to increase the minerals in the water. To keep the ph balanced you need to add an alkaline buffer to improve the carbonate hardness of the tank which in effect is the waters resistance to ph change. You have to do this slowly but the fish will thank you longer term.

What you do not need is a product to raise the ph, but a product to increase the general hardness (or use Epsom salts, table salt and baking powder you’ll have to research the measures as I haven’t done it this way for ages).

Have your guppies produced offspring before?

Finally on the parasite front give it a few days then let’s try a general parasitic medication. Do you have any other fish in the tank or invertebrates?

Al1ce · May 2, 2020

Martyn87 said:
right Alice number 1 lesson forget PH. Ph is a by product of the minerals in the aquarium. The general hardness (GH) is the total dissolved minerals in the water. Some fish need harder water to get the minerals they need others need soft. The process is osmoregulation so in essence the passage of water and minerals across a membrane. With soft water (water with low minerals) the mineral loving fish will not be able to get all the minerals from the water it needs. Thus health and immune resistance diminishes.

To maintain the gh in the 12ish region you need to increase the minerals in the water. To keep the ph balanced you need to add an alkaline buffer to improve the carbonate hardness of the tank which in effect is the waters resistance to ph change. You have to do this slowly but the fish will thank you longer term.

What you do not need is a product to raise the ph, but a product to increase the general hardness (or use Epsom salts, table salt and baking powder you’ll have to research the measures as I haven’t done it this way for ages).

Have your guppies produced offspring before?

Finally on the parasite front give it a few days then let’s try a general parasitic medication. Do you have any other fish in the tank or invertebrates?

Yes I have 2 Cory Dora doing fine no probs with them, and yes all my guppies I have are from when I did my first guppy breeding today the oldest one I had before breeding the white one I mentioned yesterday that had red scrape marks on it’s gills I provided a picture, well sadly it died today, yet the rest look happy and swimming around as normal and pooping fine since I did another water change.

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