Planting A Tank Whilst Fishless Cycling?

L2wis said:

Thanks for your reply Byron! This is my first tank so this is all brand new to me.

Regarding fish species at the moment I'm thinking only tiger barbs for the tank! Do you have a rough idea how many we could keep in my 90 litres tank when they're fully grown?

The other option I quite like it only tetras! Again not sure how many I could keep of them? I think only tiger barbs is probably what I'll go for, love the look of them!

Im still leaning towards play sand as substrate choice and your reply earlier strengthens that, I guess the question is whether tigers or tetras would be okay with sand.

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Your 90 litre/23 gallon tank is pushing it a bit with Tiger Barbs, but it should work OK.  But the barbs will be the only upper fish, and a group of 9-11; I like odd numbers, no reason here except personal choice, but I would not have less than 9 as fewer is more of a risk for aggressive behaviours, and your tank is not "large" to the fish.  You could add some substrate fish to this for some lower interest, if carefully chosen both for the barbs and the tank size.
 
If this is your intended fish, think about a biotope-style aquascape.  Biotope means that everything in the aquarium, from fish species, plant species, substrate material and decor (wood, rock, pebbles, etc) are close to what one would find in the fish species' natural habitat.  Tiger Barbs (the correct scientific name is Puntius anchisporus, more on this below) is native to the island of Borneo but populations have been introduced elsewhere. The fish is found in quiet streams in the forest, with sand and rock substrates and dense marginal vegetation.  A nice aquascape could therefore have a sand substrate (I would definitely use play sand here, for the effect) with some river rock of varying sizes scattered around to represent boulders.  A couple chunks of bogwood representing fallen trees or roots on the riverbed would complete the hardscape.  Plants could be confined to floating, to represent the overhanging marginal vegetation.  Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is ideal for this, as it is native to the region, or you could use the stem plant Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) rooted in one rear corner and allowed to grow across the surface, or just left floating.
 
Now, back to the name of this species; may get a bit technical, but I like knowing these things out of interest and some others are probably the same.
 
The Tiger Barb has long been known under the incorrect scientific name of Puntius tetrazona.  The true species (the aquarium "Tiger Barb") was originally described as Barbus anchisporus by L. Vaillant in 1902, but initial imports misidentified the fish as Systomus Capoeta sumatrensis, a similar-looking species, which after several name changes has ended up as Puntius tetrazona.  This latter fish is quite rare, and probably all but unknown in the hobby. Dr. Kottelat (Maurice Kottelat et.al., 1993) sorted out the confusion but the Tiger Barb still frequently appears in the literature under the incorrect name.  The man-made variants like the Green, Gold, etc. are not natural wild species but colour forms of the same species.  I personally think the original species is the most attractive, which is usually the case.
 
The subject species was moved to the genus Puntius by T.R. Roberts in 1989. This genus, whose name comes from the Bangla term pungti (= small cyprinids) was erected in 1822 by F. Hamilton for the spotted barbs, and until fairly recently contained some 139 species; many ichthyologists have felt for some time that a full revision is needed, as this is certainly not a monophyletic clade. The revision considering the species native to Southern Asia (=the Indian subcontinent) by Pethiyagoda et al. (2012) has moved six species into the resurrected genus Systomus, and erected three new genera, Dawkinsia, Pethia and Haludaria [originally Dravidia in the paper, but subsequently changed], for several other "Puntius" species respectively.  We can assume there will be more changes with the remaining Puntius species as time goes on.
 
Byron.

Thanks for the info Byron! I just got back from visiting two fish shops!

I got myself some background vinyl which is two sided (black one side and dark blue gradiented on the other). I also got two peices of Mopani which I think should suit tigers and a bag of play sand!

Noticed loaches whilst I was at the shops, they looked nice, with them being down the bottom would they be suitable tank mates for tigers? Providing I had room with 9 tigers?

Use the black background, blue will be distracting here.  I've seen both "in person."
 
I actually thought about loaches previously and didn't suggest them, but now that you've asked I will comment.  Loaches are shoaling fish, and highly social, so there should be five or six minimum.  I've had good luck with several species in groups of five...usually I get six and one decides to die after a couple months, and the remaining five live for years.  None of the standard loaches will work here because there is insufficient space.  By standard I mean the commonly-seen Botia species (Yo Yo, Angelicus, etc) and of course not the Clown Loach which gets huge.
 
But there are dwarf species.  The most common of these is the Dwarf Chain Loach [now Ambastaia sidthimunki, see here: http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ambastaia-sidthimunki/ ].  Another is the Banded Dwarf Loach, still seen under the former name Yunnanilus cruciatus but now more recently Micronemacheilus cruciatus.  Here's data: http/www.loaches.com/species-index/yunnanilus-cruciatus ].  I have both species together, and I am quite fond of the latter especially as in my tank they are out and about far more.  Also in a group of 5-6.  Given your space, and I am assuming this is a 30-inch length tank (?), I would just have five of whichever.
 
Here we are moving away from true "biotope" as these fish would never see each other naturally, but that doesn't matter unless you want to be more exact.  I tend to stay more with "geographic" rather than strict biotope myself as it expands the possibilities for different fish but they are still very similar in general requirements respecting water parameters and habitat.
 
If you do get either loach, you should have more wood, and preferablty some of the Malaysian Driftwood (as it is called in NA).  This is very dark brown almost black heavy wood, and each piece usually has tunnels and crevices, essential for loaches.  Each loach will want to select his/her "home" in the wood, and though they are highly social they are also highly territorial.  They also love to play tag and chase through the tunnels.
 
Byron.

L2wis said:

Thanks for the replies all, your informations is incredibly helpful! I was wondering about the light situation Byron so you beat me to it!

Here is a pic of the underside of my hood, I think I know where a bulb could be mounted now but any instructions that might help would be good!

http/i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/L2wis/DSC_1155.jpg

http/i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/L2wis/DSC_1156.jpg

@Talltree01: I don't like the sound of poor fish getting stuck! Is there anyway your friend avoided it or do they just been periodically rescuing. Might keep researching more filters.

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i have a jewel filter, its tall rectangle and there is a gap between the glass and filter. my big fish dont go near but my bristlenose practically lives behing it. its his fav spot. at one time he even dug a nest under it and my female layed eggs. the smaller fish are able to swim in and out of the gap fine and never get stuck to it. im not sure if this is available to u where you live but you could research. also i would recomment a 100w heater. i have a 50w in my 60l and its fine but for a bigger tank it wont be good enough.
correct me if im wrong plz.

Thanks for the info on Dwarf Loach Byron! I'm still a long way from stocking with fish but it useful to know traits of each species so I can plan around it.

I've used the black side of the vinyl, looks a lot better than the blue side! I've got a couple of photos to show the wood I've got so far, I think it looks great and when wet the dark brown parts go almost black, I've only got pics of the wood when it was dry, I noticed the colour change when I put it in a bucket to soak.

@sparrow, I've ordered the fluval u2 now but I intend to keep an eye on it and I've got a tetra 100W heater ready and waiting.

My next job that I hope to do today is going to be washing the play sand!

Washed and dropped in my play same today and filled up the tank with water at the same time! I’ll attach a photo or two tomorrow when I'm on a computer.

Not treated the water with anything yet but not going to get any plants until next weekend at the earliest. Will need to get myself a water test kit too.

You're on your way.  BTW, you don't need to use a conditioner with plants, the chlorine will not hurt them, and in fact it is a micro nutrient.  And you may want to do some water changes to clear the water after planting.  Once you add fish, use the conditioner.  And if you add any items like wood, rock or plants from an existing and established tank, these will contain bacteria so I would use conditioner before adding these if the tank is freshly filled.  Once you fill the tank, the chlorine will off-gas over the next 24 or so hours anyway.  If you have chloramine in the water, that is different, it does not do this.
 
Byron.

Yep well on my way now! Here are some pics of the Mopani I purchased (that is on it's second day of soaking at the moment) and the tank after filling.

Here is my tank with the Mopani dropped in, I realise this is going to change the colour of my water but i'm not bother by that as there are going to be quite a few water changes ahead of me anyway.

Is this the placement of the wood for the aquascape, or are you just letting it soak and intend to arrange things later?
 
Byron.

Ill probably move things about nearer to fish buying time, I've been soaking the wood for a couple of days in a bucket but decided to drop it in the tank to save space, not fussed about it changing my water colour because I'm going to be doing plenty of water changes yet!

Might add some rock too to the aquascape but will wait and see what space I've got left after planting!

Got the heater and filter installed this evening as the filter arrived today, am I right thinking I should turn these on and leave them from now on?

I've set my heater to 27C, going to check that is ideal for tank cycling in the guides section.

I've turned down my heater to 25C now as I read on the net in a few locations is this a better temp for tiger barbs and cycling a tank. Plants at the weekend!

Got my water test kit today, measured the ph only as I think I'd be a waste of time measuring anything else this early because all I've added is mopani so far.

Water ph maxed out the normal test and the high ph test came in at 8.0

Keep changing my mind about what fish to keep too! I'm now thinking a mixed community of cory or loach at the bottom and a single male dwarf gourami and then at a layer date maybe some swordtails.

I don't see the GH of your tap water mentioned in this thread; check this with the water supply people who probably have a website.  Swordtails being livebearers require moderately hard water, while the barbs, corys and loaches mentioned are better in softer water but can adapt if not too extreme.  The GH might suggest going one or the other way.
 
Byron.

This is the water analysis from the water people's website: