The Behemoth Tank

George Farmer said:

plantbrain said:

If you have a heavy bioload like this tank, then suddenly stop adding so much CO2, which drives rapid uptake of NH4 under high light, this causes a back log of NH4, although small, it's often enough to induce some algae species.

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That makes perfect sense and explains why unstable, not just low CO2, can induce algae.

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Well, they are also linked, poor unstable CO2 will cause a back up of NH4, and so will a large uprooting of plants etc without a fast water change afterwards, or low CO2 reduces the rate of NH4 uptake by the plant(it does not need as much NH4 since it's now CO2 limited, so it down regulates uptake of Nitrogen).

Likewise, adding NH4 will induce algae even if you have good CO2 and nutrients and higher light.
This is why you cannot keep adding fish to higher light tanks to supply all the N neededs without adding NO3's from KNO3 etc, although many do rely solely on fish waste with a wide range of results, adding KNO3 typically improves plant health and vigor a great deal.

In many locations in Euroope and the UK, you have a lot of NO3 in the tap water already.
So 50% weekly water changes with 20-40ppm NO3 adds enough NO3 and then the fish waste along with that adds enough NH4 etc.

So for such tanks, one can use K2SO4 in place of KNO3.

Even if you add more KNO3 and do not use K2SO4 with such tap water, the added NO3 really has never done any ill effects to Discus/Altums and other supposedly sensitive fish species.

Still, as long asd there's ample supplies, and it can come from something like Dirt and sand, ADA aqua soil, or exclusively the water column from KNO3 and/or fish waste, the plants are fine.

It's when you get too far outside of a dosing range that's good for the plants that folks get into trouble.


Too low= stunting plants
Too high= maybe fish issues

I've gone to 120-160ppm a few times for a 3 days peroids to see using KNO3, it did kill off about 40-50% of the Amano shrimp, but no fish where affected.

This Behemoth has about 60 bags of ADA aqua soil, gets standard 3x a week EI and is now packed with weeds that grow rapidly.

The lighting is 4x 1000w MH's, 8x 65w PC's and 8x40W. It's about 850 micro mols/m^2/sec at the surface and about 225 micromols at the lowest point inside the tank.

That's about 8-12 w/gal of PC light equivalent!

At the 4 ft depth, it's aboput like having 3 W/gal over a 200 liter standard sized tank, but the upper part is beyond most all lighting set ups in most tanks.

ADA's large tank is a mere 2400 watts but gets some sun and has a little FL's as well, still, the distance of the MH's much higher/farther than the more efficicent 1000w lights(16" away).

I'd say this tank has about 2x more light.
That makes it much harder to maintain and prune, but we can throttle the light with time duration etc also(typically 8 hour lighting time).


Regards,
Tom Barr

Well, I thought I was walking into disaster, but it was not that bad of shape this time down.

I found out if you fill the tank 1/2 way and float in the tank, it makes replanting very easy. Trying hang or balance on sharp rocks with hands or feet hurts

Fish bit my toes.
These Altums...........well they have to be the biggest pigs in the tank, I fed them daily for 3 days and they always came to the front of the tank begging like the worst of dogs.........

He has not added all 64. 18 of the largest fattest ones have been added and have done well. I saw these when they where under 1", they are 5" long now.

Some guy in Germany sold the client these discus which are huge.

I did a total rework this time, spent about 30 hours of reworking labor.
I re[planted most of the front 2/3 of the tank except for the hair grass lawn, I added a large piece of Anubiasized wood to balance the sides, I could have added another log on the other side but filling in the blank space on the left removed that need.

I added 500lbs of ADA like Siuyo(sp) rock, this makes a very nice contrast and divides the tank up into workable units.

I'm trying to get one of the friends there to have us do a tank for Jim Carry. He has marine tank, I figure he needs a Freshwater equilvalent.

LA Zoo exhibit is a go and in the planning stages. There will definitely be 2 large tanks in the Amazon display there I will get to work on. We are also going to Amazon to collect the fish with Heiko.
They will film the entire process. Should be cool.

Note, this is the tank before I fixed it, it'll take a few days before it's happy and the plants have filled in more. It was literally covered in algae when the CO2 was off for 7 days before being fixed.

We used Excel+daily 40% water change, blackout and virtually all plants where algae free after 6 days.

Regards

Tom Barr

Oh here's another weed choked example before I did the rework.............note person's head 2 meters away.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Tank's still looking immense! Glad to here that all the fish are thriving...

Cheers...

I love how matter of fact you are, Tom.

I found out if you fill the tank 1/2 way and float in the tank, it makes replanting very easy.

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As if being able to float in a tank is normal!

So the algae was due to the CO2 malfunction then? When you say you used excel was that overdosing with it or regular rate? That must have cost a fair bit! Did it not affect the plants?

Thanks for the update, good to see the tank again.

Sam

plantbrain said:

Amano would likely say the fish load is too high and too confusing.
In some ways he would be right, but in terms of viewing interest and delight, I think this tank is a lot more fun.

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Yeah I can definately understand that, as a whole the tank looks amazing and obviously strikes a balance between a planted tank and a fish tank. But if it was me personally I'd have gone for all the same colour of discus, all the same angels, massive shoal of cardinals and a massive shoal of congo tetra's and pretty much leave it at that for fish.

for me the many coloured discus distracts a little from the scape

Oh I certainly agree with you Miss Wiggles.
I'd love to see a a pack of 300 congos.
I had 24 in my 90 gallon, really enjoyable fish.

I think the Discus should go in his office tank which is another project I plan on doing for this same client. It'll be 36Dx 30Tx 96 L (inches) or 450 gal.

All the altums should go in here and adding Apistos, various pencil fish, more hatchets and tetras etc.

I have a 350 gal I take care of also, it has only smaller theme fish and larger cryptic plecos. Smaller fish give a tank a much larger feel. I really do not like many discus, very gaudy.

My own tanks shall be along these lines as well. At least I get fish for wholesale as well equipment and other items

I have narrowed it down to 6 tanks I intend to put up with when I get my home here in a year or two. 225gal(community), 180 gal (large aggressive community), 120 Tangy, 120 Congo, 80 gal reef, 80 gallon cold water macro algae, 40 gallon SEA and 40 gallon warm water macro algae. Opps, that's 8........ darn.........

T-
I use Excel at the labeled rate only, there's no need to over dose it, it's not something I would suggest you do. Like CO2, it's poisonous at higher levels, kills and stresses fish.

20 liter pales and a good reason not to mess things up cost wise. 750mls a day can cost a fair amount.

Regards,
Tom Barr

plantbrain said:

My own tanks shall be along these lines as well. At least I get fish for wholesale as well equipment and other items

I have narrowed it down to 6 tanks I intend to put up with when I get my home here in a year or two. 225gal(community), 180 gal (large aggressive community), 120 Tangy, 120 Congo, 80 gal reef, 80 gallon cold water macro algae, 40 gallon SEA and 40 gallon warm water macro algae. Opps, that's 8........ darn.........

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so out of pure noseyness, what tanks do you have in your own house now? can we see pics of them?

point..what tanks do you have in your own house now? can we see pics of them *hint hint*

I'm surprised about the excel dose rate, people rave about its ability to kill BBA as 3x dose. But you find that even at normal levels you get algae reduction? Or is it for the benefit of the plants rather than direct algae control?

Sam

PS nice pic

[Tom in tank.jpg]

Now there's a caption contest if I ever saw one.....

Great update, Tom. Thanks.

What KH, GH is the water?

I'm considering altums instead of my originally planned discus for my 150 gal. Any top tips on altums, please?

Sam - I've killed BBA recently by spot dosing regular qty. on my affected bogwood.

Where you planning on getting Altums from George? Heard there have not been any imports to the UK for around 2 years

James

If I do, I will order them in especially.

Ah right.. may have to get some details off you for that.. im planning a 1500lt tank towards the end of the year and have always wanted altums..

James

I am just curious but how much money did this tank cost. 100,000s ? By the way the aquascape is incredible.

I use plain tap, it's about a KH of 8 and a Gh around the same.
Rose lines don't like it, but the Altums could care less.

When you get Altums, you must changes things slowly, get tiny fish and then feed and raise them up to have this level of success.

If you have older fish, it's nothing but trouble and scared fish that are sensitive.

Regards,
Tom Barr