Zebra Danios swim with nose to top

[Oblio]

That explains why after doing a 75% water change those nitrate numbers were still elevated. Any recommendations for fish that can tolerate elevated nitrate levels?

This may help

Alternative Nitrate Reduction Method$

I had the good fortune of limited access to an ichthyologist and marine biologist who operate an LFS here in Southern California and work at an aquarium in San Diego. We began what became almost a full year of informal but largely quantified gatherings of data on nitrate reduction techniques and...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Tbh I am thinking it might potentially have been the nitrate level in the aquarium that finished off the other four fish.

Being caught and bagged in the shop, then transported home is stressful enough but to then go into high nitrate water could have been the last straw. The water used in the shop aquariums could well come from the same supplier as you but they have the means and knowledge to be able to treat the water to artificially reduce nitrates with additives etc.

 

[Lexiih36]

Also,

Heavier planting will do alot to bring down the nitrates to a more controlled level. Ideally the nitrates would be no more than 10ppm if you can manage that, 15-20ppm is probably the upper limit that the majority of fish will tolerate...however you want the fish to thrive, not just tolerate the water chemistry.

Hornwort, Hairgrass, Anubia and even moss balls can assist in reducing the nitrates.

I would be inclined to really go over the top on the planting, nice and heavy planting....you can always trim it back once established, that will go a long way towards controlling the nitrate levels

I think before you consider which fish to add, you might want to research plants that will help sort out the nitrate in the best and quickest way, get them established and your tests down to a more normal level...then choose the appropriate fish for the aquarium size.

O don't really have much more space for planting. I also have 2 miss balls already.

 

[Lexiih36]

I got the water tested at the store. It was the PH. I basically dropped them in acidic water. I have no clue why it kept showing such a low result when it was at at least an 8. I really screwed up with that baking soda

 

[Oblio]

I got the water tested at the store. It was the PH. I basically dropped them in acidic water. I have no clue why it kept showing such a low result when it was at at least an 8. I really screwed up with that baking soda

8 pH after a large water change?

Did you use the High pH test for your at home test?

Also note that pH > 7 is Basic, not Acidic, which is < 7

 

[ClownLurch]

Tank isn’t long enough. Take em back.

 

[Essjay]

You said the tank is a 20 gallon high, is that 24 inches long? I'm afraid zebra danios do really need at least 3 feet swimming room. If the two which are left do make it, taking them back and part exchanging them for a species more suitable to this tank would be the better option.

Can you tell us the pH of your tap water, both freshly run and a sample that's been allowed to stand overnight. pH often changes on standing.
Are you on well water or mains water? If it's mains, your water provider's website should have your hardness and alkalinity on it somewhere. Alkalinity is the word water providers use instead of KH.
If they also list other things, it would be useful to know what they say your nitrate is. But American water providers use a different unit from our test kits so it will need to be converted. [US water providers use nitrate-N while our test kits - and UK water companies - use nitrate-NO3]

 

[Lexiih36]

You said the tank is a 20 gallon high, is that 24 inches long? I'm afraid zebra danios do really need at least 3 feet swimming room. If the two which are left do make it, taking them back and part exchanging them for a species more suitable to this tank would be the better option.

Can you tell us the pH of your tap water, both freshly run and a sample that's been allowed to stand overnight. pH often changes on standing.
Are you on well water or mains water? If it's mains, your water provider's website should have your hardness and alkalinity on it somewhere. Alkalinity is the word water providers use instead of KH.
If they also list other things, it would be useful to know what they say your nitrate is. But American water providers use a different unit from our test kits so it will need to be converted. [US water providers use nitrate-N while our test kits - and UK water companies - use nitrate-NO3]

My tap water pH is neutral. I use main water, I live in the suburbs, but I already checked where I get water from.

I did another small water change to cool it down a little more (it never budged from 78 degrees, but I got the temp down to 75 with this latest water change. The PH is now about 7.5. the store showed it at above 8. I had to do a control test with my High ph test, so I mixed some baking soda with tap water just to check. There was nothing wrong with the test. I have no idea why it wouldn't show the water to be that high to me but did at the store.

I'll take them back. The store said my water parameters were great besides the elevated pH so that's good.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Also,

O don't really have much more space for planting. I also have 2 miss balls already.

You have plenty of room for alot more planting...and more moss balls too

Choose the right fish for your water chemistry, not force fish to tolerate it. Fish can tolerate alot of things but it affects their health and welfare and will inevitably shorten the lifespan.

Ideally you should not mess with the water chemistry since you would need to match it each and every water change, which is not as easy as it sounds. Fish are highly sensitive to even the slightest change and any change no matter how insignificant it may seem to you can potentially be life or death for the fish

I feel that you have fallen headlong into the trap in thinking fishkeeping is easy peasy and that the shop has told you a load of bunkum in regard to your water chemistry. With the wide differences in your own tests and the shop tests it suggests that they vanished into the tea room at the back of the store long enough for you to think they tested when infact they did not. It happens, more than people realise. Shop staff see a newby fishkeeper, sell them the proverbial snowball to an eskimo knowing that the customer knows very little and they can make a nice healthy cut on their sales.

You need to rethink your entire stocking and planting, but first you absolutely must get that water chemistry sorted out and preferably without adding stuff to make it work...such as the bicarb and any other stuff the shop told you was a must have.

I have said this to many new fishkeepers in the past and you are no different, the shop saw you and your inexperience coming and took full advantage of that and since you couldn't question them, you accepted everything they said. You are not the first, nor will you be the last person with all the best intentions who has their lack of experience taken advantage of by a store that only sees profits over animal care.

Take the two survivors back to the store, get the aquarium planted up and the water chemistry balanced, then match the fish to the water chemistry and, just as important, the dimensions and volume of the aquarium.

There are many here who will guide you on the planting side, such as @itiwhetu or @Byron who have a vast amount of knowledge gained from many years of owning planted aquariums. People here can also help with fish species most suited too later on once the aquarium is sorted out properly. Take your time, do it right and you can enjoy your aquarium for years to come.

 

[itiwhetu]

To start with very few freshwater will survive in a tank with a pH of eight or above. The more plant you have the more organic activity, therefore the greater chance of lowering the pH. Try to have between 30-50% of your tank in plants. Look for stemmed plants like Hygrophila, Ambulia, and Cabomba

 

[Essjay]

Looking at the photo of the tank, it is very lightly planted with slow growing plants. Itiwhetu has suggested some fast growing plants which will help enormously. I have ambulia in my main tank and I have to prune it almost weekly as it grows so fast.
Floating plants are also good in a tank as they not only remove ammonia quickly, they also shield the fish from bright light.

Is the Java fern planted in the substrate? If it is, you need to remove it and attach it to some decor. This plant has a rhizome, the thick thing with leaves growing out of one side and roots out of the other. The rhizome rots if it is covered. Anubias is the same.



Going forwards, I would return the surviving danios to the shop, then do a few very large water changes to remove the baking soda from the water. Once you've done that, get more plants.
Then tell us the pH of your tap water, both freshly run and a glassful that's been allowed to stand overnight.
Look on your water provider's website for hardness, and tell us the number and the unit of measurement (there are half a dozen they could use).

Once we have the pH and hardness we can suggest fish suitable for your tank and your water.



Please do no believe anything a shop worker tells you. So many of them don't have a clue about fish keeping and will make up any rubbish.

 

[Lexiih36]

Well I didn't really come here to be told that I've been tricked into thinking fish keeping would be easy. Nor did I even say that. In fact everything I've read since I bought the tank has shown that it's complicated.

I already took the Danios back. As for testing, I literally watched her test that water. But good to know that I'm some idiot who walked in and gotten taken advantage of. Her advice was literally the same as yours. Wait til the water parameters were fixed.

The reason I bought the Danios was because I was told (by multiple internet care guides) that Danios are good in 10 gallon water. I didn't just walk into the store and make my decision there. This place is the only one that I saw saying that they need to be in 3 feet of water.

The pH from my sink is neutral. The reason why it was so elevated was because of the baking soda. Due to the 75% water change,then the 25 the next day, I doubt it's still there. The pH is currently 7.2. I verified this both on a strip test and the pH test kit. The nitrates are also down to 10. They will probably get no lower because of the presence of nitrates in my tap water. The dGH is 4. The test shows 120ppm. The hardness level is about 80ppm.

The reason I said that I don't have more room to plant on the gravel is because I have a bunch of dwarf baby tears at the bottom. They got washed out of the substrate when I changed the water. The have fern does not have the rhizome in the water. I dropped it in with only the roots buried. Im already planning on getting hornwort and some floaters.

I also tested some of the fish water from the store to the water in my tank and the parameters were similar. So I can definitively say that it was the baking soda.

In short I just need some fish willing to tolerate an elevated nitrate level.

I'd also appreciate not being insulted. Thanks.

 

[Oblio]

No one is insulting you.

We are trying to help, and offer anecdotal evidence the LPS can and do cause problems for those new to the hobby or are less experienced.

You state in one of your first posts:

I am pretty new to fish keeping, but it's been my new obsession. I just got my first fish yesterday after cycling for a few weeks. The thing that bought me here was 4 of them dying within that first day. It was pretty depressing.

We don't know how much research you have done, or where. We are simply trying to share our experiences and knowledge given the information we have.

 

[Lexiih36]

Cool, but trying to help doesn't need to include assuming that I think this is easy and that I haven't put thought into what I've been doing. Yes, I'm new and I've made mistakes,but that doesn't mean that I'm not taking this seriously.

I came for advice, not to be told that I've been scammed by the per store person who's probably being paid minimum wage. I've already had enough encounters with them when I was setting up my tank to have picked up that most of them know nothing about fish keeping. Actually most people who keep fish don't know what they're talking about. No one on the internet is anymore credible than the person at the fish store.

The only questions I asked her pertained to the water quality. I watched her test the water myself. Before I went to the store, I researched the fish and the parameters myself. There's varying information, so I set my tank up to the best of my ability. As I stated, I spent a few days researching Danios through various methods and all of them said Danios would be ok with a 20 gallon. A few said that 20 wide is preferable, but I'd already bought my tank by that point and figured it would be fine. When a few of you suggested I take them back, I did.

My tank would have been fine had I just done a water change to raise the pH rather than the baking soda. It was a mistake. I understand that I'm new and I'm going to make mistakes that result in the death of my fish. But let me reiterate that that does not mean that I think this is easy or something that I'm not taking seriously.

I've been looking at Harlequin Rasboras. They seem to be very hardy fish. The only problem I see is my lack of tall plants. Which would be good for them?

 

[Essjay]

The best place for fish research is Seriously Fish, a site written by experts not someone who just keeps fish with little actual knowledge.

From their profile

Brachydanio rerio – Zebra ‘Danio’ (Brachydanio frankei, Danio rerio) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

An active species so even a small group needs an aquarium with minimum base dimensions of 90 ∗ 30 cm.

I don't know which sites/people said they were fine in 10 gallons but this is the only source I would trust.



I have harlequin rasboras and I would say their need is more for floating plants rather than tall plants. Harlequins come from water with overhanging vegetation so they feel exposed with nothing above them. If you could find some floating plants with long roots that would provide both overhead shelter and tall plant matter at the same time - plants such as water sprite (though these grow quite large, maybe too large for 10 gallons) or Amazon frogbit or water lettuce. More info on harlequins here.

Trigonostigma heteromorpha – Harlequin (Rasbora heteromorpha) — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com