WTH with the water pH shooting alkaline

[outofwater]

So, 2 weeks ago I tried to get 3 ottos to keep company to the lonely one I keep (had 2, but one died about a month in and this one has been lonely ever since).
All 3 died in days in the quarantine tank. I went back to the shop with water and pH test showed off the chart blue (api kit, same one I have at home). The guy put too much reacting agent, the water was nearly black at the shop. But when I came home I ran 3 tests back to back on my 3 tanks and tap water, and tested with strips too, for good measure.
To my dismay, the tap water is consistently above the grading scale. The guy at the shop told me to "let it rest" a few days, it seems to slightly lower it, but it still is above the darkest shade.
I use a brita filter and that water tests at around 6.6, right after the brita is done filtrating it.

When I started my tanks, back in December last year, the pH off the tap was 7 to 7.5, and once in the tanks it stayed or even went down a bit on the most heavily planted one.

Now the 10g where I keep my lonely dwarf gourami is reading 7.6, the quarantine tank maybe 7.2, and the 29g, the one with the most plants, at 7.

I don't want to add chemicals, and besides driftwood and more plants, both of which I do plan on getting, what would you recommend? I'm thinking of adding a small filtration system to my kitchen sink, however the ones I've looked at seem to take ages to filtrate any decent amount, and given that all in all I change anywhere from 5 to 10 gallons weekly (10 to 15% per tank) it doesn't seem that practical, but I know I have to do something about this.

Posted picture is tap water. Left side: sitting on a bucket for 3+ days, right side, right off the tap, after being filtered in the brita.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Byron]

You probably won't be able to adjust the pH, at least unless you know exactly what is causing it to be high. Check the water authority's website; either the GH and KH are high, or they are adding something to raise the pH. The latter is common in soft water areas as it prevents corrosion of the pipes from acidic water. Find out what (if anything) they add. Then we will know how to proceed.

 

[outofwater]

You probably won't be able to adjust the pH, at least unless you know exactly what is causing it to be high. Check the water authority's website; either the GH and KH are high, or they are adding something to raise the pH. The latter is common in soft water areas as it prevents corrosion of the pipes from acidic water. Find out what (if anything) they add. Then we will know how to proceed.

Hunting down the towns water report, I've found older ones and the only clear thing I've found so far is that they add chloramine.

Tested for GH and KH using api strips. Tested all the tanks and tap water (right off the tap, and filtered on the brita). Here are the findings, all expressed in ppm:

All 3 tanks show 30 and 80 for GH and KH, respectively.
Off the tap: somewhere between 30 and 60 for GH, and between 80 and 120 for KH.
Off the tap, brita-filtered: GH at 30, KH between 40 and 80.

Once I find the damn town water report I'll post it.

 

[outofwater]

@Byron
I can't find a report with specific pH, GH or KH values.

All I found so far in the 2021 report is a paragraph mentioning that since 1996 they add sodium carbonate and carbon dioxide to combat corrosion and lead traces in the water.

 

[Byron]

Sodium carbonate is raising ph. They add this to my water. It partially dissipates out but the ph remains high. Here they use enough to raise the pH to 8 something, from the natural 5-6. The tanks used to hover around 7 with all this. You should keep an eye on the pH.

Chloramine does not affect pH or GH or KH. Many areas use chloramine instead of chlorine. Chlorine will dissipate out in about 24hours, fast if somehow the water can be briskly agitated. But chloramine which is chlorine bound to ammonia does not. But neither is affecting parameters.

 

[outofwater]

Sodium carbonate is raising ph. They add this to my water. It partially dissipates out but the ph remains high. Here they use enough to raise the pH to 8 something, from the natural 5-6. The tanks used to hover around 7 with all this. You should keep an eye on the pH.

Chloramine does not affect pH or GH or KH. Many areas use chloramine instead of chlorine. Chlorine will dissipate out in about 24hours, fast if somehow the water can be briskly agitated. But chloramine which is chlorine bound to ammonia does not. But neither is affecting parameters.

Thanks, I got it. So, the sodium carbonate is the issue, I assume at some point recently they upped the dosage because I clearly remember that from the start my pH off the tap was not an issue. I mean it was around 7 and I was told it'd be better for my fish if I could lower it, but it never was off the measuring chart.

The brita seems removes chlorine, zinc, copper, cadmium, and mercury (per their source material and a quick internet search), it also seems to remove the sodium carbonate, doesn't it? Or how do you reckon jts causing such a clear drop in pH reading? Just trying to get my bearings here about what to do next.

Thank you

 

[Byron]

I doubt the Brita removes sodium carbonate. I'm not aware of a filter that does, so work around it. Do smaller water changes,

 

[outofwater]

Since I get all OCD about these things I just had to dig. It seems other hobbyists have experienced this before (brita apparently lowering pH) and the consensus reached was that it lowered KH, not GH. And after a few hours or a day the pH goes back up, not as much though, so it is somewhat of a solution. However, they cautioned that this might throw off the achieved "balance" in established tanks.

I'm going to tinker with this. I did smaller changes on my quarantine tank and the dwarf gourami today and used filtered water. Tomorrow it's the turn for the 29g.

This won't work long-term though, specially since I'm planning on moving up to a 55g tank in the coming months. An RO system will have to be procured, or I'll have to triple the amount of plants when I set up the 55g, and definitely get the driftwood and more plants for all tanks.

Interesting things one finds out because of this hobby.

 

[Essjay]

At one time Brita's website said in the FAQ section that it removed hardness (calcium and magnesium ions) and replaced them with hydrogen ions. Since pH is a measure of hydrogen ions, the more there are the lower the pH. Unless they've chnaged what's in the filter, it will still be doing the same thing.


I used to have a Brita jug so I tested the water and compared it to my tap water.
Tap water pH was 7.2, freshly run
Brita water, freshly filtered, pH less than 6.0. It was off the bottom of the scale.

The Brita jug also dropped GH from 9 to 6 and KH from 3 to 0.

 

[Byron]

Just remember it is the sodium chloride that is increasint the pH, and this has to be factored in. The Britta may lower GH, but its effect on the pH is what matters.

 

[Valkyrie_Lips]

As far as I know most ottos are wild caught and very sensitive. Acclimation will be a huge pain for sure and they need a lot of algae to thrive. Most starve to death before even getting to your tank. It could be that you had a bad batch that was already on the brink of death. Did they look skinny?

 

[outofwater]

As far as I know most ottos are wild caught and very sensitive. Acclimation will be a huge pain for sure and they need a lot of algae to thrive. Most starve to death before even getting to your tank. It could be that you had a bad batch that was already on the brink of death. Did they look skinny?

No, they looked healthy, if a little shy, which is the case with ottos no matter what, from what I've seen anyway. The lonely guy I have is by now well established in my main tank, and I hope that the others "follow his lead" when it comes to feeding. I have algae and good biofilm on that tank, specially on the back glass, so as far as food I'm fairly optimistic, I just hope there's no big "shock" and now that I know that my tap water is being made intentionally more alkaline, I'm taking more precautions before I bring them in.

I went by the small shop today, he still has plenty of ottos, all looking active and good.

I spoke to the guy and he informed me that during the warmer months the water authorities do increase the dosage with sodium to make the water more alkaline, to better combat microorganisms that will have a more welcoming environment during the hot months, he said. That confirms my observations that the water is indeed a lot more alkaline now. So, filtering it and lowering the water change volume is the solution for now.

 

[StevenF]

I doubt the Brita removes sodium carbonate. I'm not aware of a filter that does, so work around it. Do smaller water changes,

There are filters on the market that use DI resin to remove elements like sodium, magnesium, and calcium. I don't believe Arita has such a filter. I believe there is a company zero water that does make such a filter. But I don't have experience with brita or Zero water. I have a RO system. Ragardless the Brita filter doesn't appear to be doing much if anything to your waterbed on your test results.

 

[outofwater]

There are filters on the market that use DI resin to remove elements like sodium, magnesium, and calcium. I don't believe Arita has such a filter. I believe there is a company zero water that does make such a filter. But I don't have experience with brita or Zero water. I have a RO system. Ragardless the Brita filter doesn't appear to be doing much if anything to your waterbed on your test results.

Unfortunately I haven't yet found a conclusive answer as to how it does it, but the brita does lower GH and KH, and as an extension pH goes down. I have tested filtered water 24 hours later and the lower pH holds.

One thing I read about the ionization (which @Essjay mentioned a few comments ago, is that the process would slowly reverse in "open containers" i.e. fish tanks like mine (I keep it open top now) due to contact with atmospheric co2.

I keep my filtered water in a 2 gallon closed glass container, so that might be preventing the "reversal". I'll keep testing this week, and plan on filling a 2g bucket with filtered water and leave it out for a few days to see if in fact the pH goes back up on "open containers".

The only factor I can't quite replicate on the bucket will be surface movement, although I'll try to swish it now and then, as much as I can.

Thank you all for your input so far, the hobby continues to be a great source of learning opportunities.

 

[Back in the fold]

I bought my own home reverse osmosis unit two years ago and I have no water problems except those of my own making. As for pH , I find it to be the one thing that cannot be changed. It stays whatever it is and no matter what you do to try and change it , it always goes back to what it is coming out of the tap. As for your Otocinclus , unless you have a long established and very well planted aquarium they can be tricky to keep.