worried about my fishes??

[jordanrosario]

okay so i have numerous questions:
my tank has been on for around a week and a couple days, i got my fish yesterday. the woman said that the nitrate levels were still slightly present but should go away after a couple of days but im still concerned because my fish are displaying odd (i think) behavior. firstly:
- they keep, what i believe after research is called 'glass surfing'? well, one does anyway. he keeps swimming directly up and down the tank (vertically) and apparently that means it is stressed or unhappy in it's environment?
- they also sometimes stay very close to the surface and seem to be eating the surface of the water, and apparently after research this is their way of getting oxygen because there isnt enough in the tank?

i've looked it up and apparently nitrate levels affect oxygen as well as the amount of movement, i am not sure how to increase water movement besides one of those oxygen pump thingies which give off bubbles but i havent got one yet, and i am not sure how to decrease nitrate levels besides changing the water, and i am not sure how to even test if nitrate is still in the tank. i just really dont want to kill them after one day

i am also not sure how much im meant to be feeding them, they're really small, so would that be once or twice a day? and if once which time?

AND im not entirely sure how to get food and waste out of the gravel. there isnt much right now but just for future reference

 

[Seisage]

You need to get a test kit. Strips are okay, but liquid kits are better. The most important thing you need to test for right now is ammonia. Fish produce it as waste and it's toxic to them. In order to get rid of it, there needs to be a colony of bacteria that break down the ammonia and convert it into other forms. The final end product is nitrate. This is the basis of the nitrogen cycle. One week is nowhere near enough time for the colony of bacteria to become established, which is why I suspect you have ammonia instead of nitrate in your tank.

What you're working with right now is what would be called a "fish-in" cycle. It's not an ideal way to cycle a tank because it's a lot of work and has a much higher chance of harming your fish. Given that your fish are already showing signs of stress, you need to do a large water change ASAP. Read this article and hopefully it'll help. I definitely recommend an air stone as well.

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part I

RESCUING A FISH IN CYCLE GONE WILD Part I If you are reading this it means you have tried to cycle your tank using fish and have run into problems and don’t know what to do. Before we begin to discuss the potential solutions, we would like to make it clear that we do not recommend to...

www.fishforums.net

This is also a really good youtube video that explains the nitrogen cycle in aquariums. It's a little long, but worth your time.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Lots of good questions, and we'd love to help you. I will answer more of them when I can, but for the first case emergency remedy, that will do no harm, but might save the fish if there is a problem, is to do a large water change.

Do you have a water conditioner to use that declorinates the tapwater before adding it to the tank?

Anytime there is is a suspicion of a problem in a tank, the first thing to do is a water change. This will reduce any ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates in the water, increase oxygenation, and buy the fish some time while we figure out the solutions to other problems.

So first thing, remove a good 70-80% of the water in the tank. Don't worry about cleaning the substrate yet, just remove that much water, and don't worry about the fish being in a low level of water, it's only for a short time, and they'll be fine! Warm some water while you're doing this. Before you start, unplug the heater and the filter.

You also need a thermometer, but if you don't have one, use one hand in the tank, and one hand in the bucket of replacement water, and aim to have the new water the same temp, or very close, to the temperature of the water in the tank, to within a few degrees. A couple of degrees cooler is better than a few degrees hotter, but either way, as long as it close, and you've used a declorinator, it'll be fine. Refill the tank using the temperature matched and declorinated water, before turning the filter and heater back on.

Then we can address the other issues. I'm sorry to say you've been given bad advice from the fish store employees, as happens to many people new to the hobby, but it's fixable! But will require some work on your end to save these fish.

 

[Essjay]

the woman said that the nitrate levels were still slightly present but should go away after a couple of days

Did she say nitrate (with an a) or nitrite (with an i)?
Nitrite should be zero. Nitrite attaches to the fish's red blood cells so they can't take up oxygen and the fish feel as though they are suffocating. Adding extra oxygen doesn't help as the oxygen receptors in the fish's blood are blocked by nitrite and it takes 48 hours in nitrite-free water for the nitrite to leave the blood.


With a fish-in cycle like this you need to test for ammonia and nitrite every day and do a water change whenever either of them read above zero. This could mean a daily water change for several weeks to keep the fish alive.

The first part of this link explains what is happening. Ignore the second part as you have fish, and that's for before getting fish.

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

AND im not entirely sure how to get food and waste out of the gravel. there isnt much right now but just for future reference

Gravel is cleaned by using a siphon tube. The wide end is pushed down into the gravel; the food etc is sucked out and the gravel swirls around then falls out when you move the tube to the next bit of gravel.



Glass surfing is common when fish are first added to a tank. They can't see the glass and are trying to get round that invisible barrier.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Note that this is an emergency, so you really need to do the large water change now, then come back and let us know when it's done, and we can help with the other issues! But the other things are academic if the large water change isn't done first.

I strongly suspect, given that it's an uncycled tank that's just been stocked, and likely with a lot of fish, and from the fishe's behaviour, that they're suffering from a high level of ammonia and nitrites. These are toxic to fish, they are swimming in and breathing this water and ammonia and nitrites, and the longer they're in toxic water conditions, the more damage is done to their gills and internally, the more likely it is to prove fatal.

So this is why I stress that it's an emergency to do the large water change ASAP, before anything else or more research, or testing the water unless you want to save a portion of the old water to be tested at the store, which you can do! But doing that large water change absolutely has to be done first, and then when it's done, you can come back here and we will happily help more!

 

[Tacocat]

okay so i have numerous questions:
my tank has been on for around a week and a couple days, i got my fish yesterday. the woman said that the nitrate levels were still slightly present but should go away after a couple of days but im still concerned because my fish are displaying odd (i think) behavior. firstly:
- they keep, what i believe after research is called 'glass surfing'? well, one does anyway. he keeps swimming directly up and down the tank (vertically) and apparently that means it is stressed or unhappy in it's environment?
- they also sometimes stay very close to the surface and seem to be eating the surface of the water, and apparently after research this is their way of getting oxygen because there isnt enough in the tank?

i've looked it up and apparently nitrate levels affect oxygen as well as the amount of movement, i am not sure how to increase water movement besides one of those oxygen pump thingies which give off bubbles but i havent got one yet, and i am not sure how to decrease nitrate levels besides changing the water, and i am not sure how to even test if nitrate is still in the tank. i just really dont want to kill them after one day

i am also not sure how much im meant to be feeding them, they're really small, so would that be once or twice a day? and if once which time?

AND im not entirely sure how to get food and waste out of the gravel. there isnt much right now but just for future reference

Could you send a picture of the fish and tank? Some fish species just naturally hang out at the top, while for others it will be a sign of a problem. A video of the fish's behaviour would help in diagnosing the problem as well.

 

[Ichthys]

It’s nitrite that’s making them gasp for oxygen at the surface, for the reason given by Essjay. The store gave you awful advice. You should NEVER add fish to a tank with any measurable nitrite. You absolutely need to change as much water as is necessary to remove all of that nitrite.

And get some liquid test kits, as the strips are useless and give incorrect results more often than not.

If you have Seachem Prime that will neutralise the nitrites, temporarily.

 

[Ram419]

If you see nitrate then the tank is producing a healthy nitrogen cycle. Until the ammonia and nitrites go to zero and you've done a good water change to reduce nitrates after is when it would be safe to introduce fish. There should be zero ammonia and zero nitrates. Although, I've seen hardy fish tollarate a good amount of nitrates, it's still best to have zero.

I just recently started up a10 gallon quaratine tank and put one of the large filters from my established 55 gallon tank in it. I tested after adding the filter and only saw nitrites. Then I added an ammnonia source to test the cycle. I only saw ammonia converting to nitrates and never saw any nitrites. This means the filter I added to the tank had a good enough bio-filter to cycle the new tank immediately.

If you're stuck with having a fish-in cycle you'll need to make sure you do more frequent water changes until it's cycled. Use a liquid based test kit to get the best results.

EDITED: To fix wording

 

[Ichthys]

If you see nitrate then the tank is producing a healthy nitrogen cycle. Until the ammonia and nitrates go to zero and you've done a good water change to reduce nitirtes after is when it would be safe to introduce fish. Ther should be zero ammonia and zero nitrates.

For the sake of clarity I need to point out that you’re confusing nitrites and nitrates here.

 

[Essjay]

Since this is a newly set up tank with fish added after a week, when

the woman said that the nitrate levels were still slightly present

she didn't know the difference between nitrite and nitrate. In this case, ammonia would have rocketed as soon as the fish were put in the tank, and some of it has started being converted to nitrite which is what "the woman" was reporting - nitrite not nitrate.

To be honest I'm surprised there's any nitrite after just a couple of days with fish.

 

[Ram419]

For the sake of clarity I need to point out that you’re confusing nitrites and nitrates here.

Darn it I thought I proof read it good enough to fix that too. Oh well. Need to started using the abbreviations. Going to fix in my post.

 

[Lcc86]

OP were you able to complete the water change? Hope your fish are doing a bit better.

 

[sharkweek178]

Lots of good advice in this thread but there's something else that should be addressed. I'm assuming that the woman in the OP was a fish store employee. No offense to anyone who works for one, but you can't trust the advice of fish store workers. There are lots of stories of bad advice from them. The most common might be telling people to add fish before a tank is properly cycled.
Fish store workers might be well meaning but untrained. Or they might give bad advice to make a sale. They might be afraid that if they tell you how long a proper cycle usually takes, which is 6-8 weeks, that you might lose interest or buy your fish somewhere else.

 

[MaloK]

Lots of good advice in this thread but there's something else that should be addressed. I'm assuming that the woman in the OP was a fish store employee. No offense to anyone who works for one, but you can't trust the advice of fish store workers. There are lots of stories of bad advice from them. The most common might be telling people to add fish before a tank is properly cycled.
Fish store workers might be well meaning but untrained. Or they might give bad advice to make a sale. They might be afraid that if they tell you how long a proper cycle usually takes, which is 6-8 weeks, that you might lose interest or buy your fish somewhere else.

You see that a lot, people going out a LFS with an aquarium kit under one arm and a bag with a fish in the other hand.

 

[sharkweek178]

i am also not sure how much im meant to be feeding them, they're really small, so would that be once or twice a day? and if once which time?

AND im not entirely sure how to get food and waste out of the gravel. there isnt much right now but just for future reference

The thing to remember is that fish are cold blooded. They don't need the calories to regulate their body temperature. Which means they don't need to eat nearly as much as we think. Someone once told me that you're more likely to harm your fish by overfeeding them than by underfeeding them. That is especially true now that you're trying to get the cycle established. At most, you should only feed once a day and only as much as they can eat in 2-3 minutes. And not every day either. I'd say 2 or 3 times a week for now. Keep in mind that excess food that the fish don't eat will rot and worsen the water quality. Or even if they do eat it, they'll turn it into waste which also degrades water quality. More unnecessary food is worse water quality.

One more thing. Try adding fast growing floating plants. Salvinia minima, anacharis, water lettuce, Amazon frogbit, water wisteria, hornwort, water sprite, red rood floaters. Those plants draw nutrients like ammonia directly out of the water column. And since they grow quickly, they absorb a lot. Which could help now. If you have enough of them, that can actually replace a traditional cycle method. It's not an instant method though. Generally when people do a planted cycle, they make sure the plants are growing before adding fish. But in a pinch, they can help out in your situation.