With Cory’s breeding style, will they interbreed, with different varieties in the same tank???

Magnum Man

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So I have one tank, that has become a hodgepodge of Cory’s, unintentionally, but because of the nice sand bottom… this tank started with 5 new baby albino’s, and next there were 2 older mature albino’s that I felt bad, as they had lost their barbells after not being in a sand bottom tank ( they have regrown now ) and then I found 2 black ones, that I thought had died, that I nursed back into shape, that are looking great again… initially the black ones did not integrate well with the albino’s, not really hanging together, but this morning, as the lights came on, I saw them all as a group in the Java ferns… just curious if with their free love society, if different varieties would end up interbreeding, if kept in the same tank???

There is enough competition in this tank, that any eggs surviving in the future, are unlikely, just curious, if you liked Cory’s, and had a tank with several varieties, would they interbreed???
 
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First, I have to be a pain in the patootie. Unless you have albinos and regulars, you don't have varieties. You have species. I know the retired teacher is coming out here, but all varieties within a species will interbreed. Species in Corydoras don't seem to. even though some species have been in the hobby for over 100 years, I've never seen hybrids of them.
 
I need to pay attention to the way to classify them… I used to know that stuff, but age, and useless information ( you know, from work, and non fish related life ) has filled the files in my brain, and I can’t seem to find that information up there anymore… sorry… so not being a pain to me
 
I can't help being schoolteacherish. It was my trade!

It's really hard to draw a line between species, since they are a human made classification system. But on a question like this, varieties and species will get you radically different answers, and that gets confusing. The whole reclassification of Corydoras Genuses makes perfect sense to me. But it'll take some learning for this old brain to get the new Genus names.

They matter, because they help make sense of the group of fish, if someone wants to make sense of them. It's only a minority of aquarists that care. But you like weird fish, and are a good observer of them. You strike me as a guy who is drawn to the weird and wonderful, with the African tetras and such. They used to call all of them congo tetras, and that sure doesn't work.
 
Think of dogs. There are many different varieties of dogs and they can all interbreed. But none of these varieties can breed with cats because cats and dogs are different species.
Fish are a bit different because closely related species can interbreed, though they prefer their own species if available - think guppies/endlers and platies/swordtails for example. Some "cory" species are closely related and can interbreed but can doesn't mean will. I think the new classifications will make it more obvious which species are unlikely if not impossible to interbreed.
 
so the first name in the 2 part scientific name is the species, and the 2nd name is the variety, I assume... I've not had the time to follow along closely, but assuming they split up the cory's into more species???

and if different species can interbreed ( with viable offspring ), makes me wonder if they really should be different species... for example horses and donkeys can be bred, & create a mule, which is sterile, that's what "I" mean by viable offspring, that those in turn could be bred...
 
The first part is the genus, the second part is the species. The genus name starts with a capital while the species name starts with lower case. Strictly speaking, the whole scientific name should be written in italics, but on a forum it's just easier to keep on typing in the same font.

Neon tetra - Paracheirodon innesi
Paracheirodon is the genus name, innesi is the species name.


As taxonomists examine fish more closely - and DNA now plays a large part - the genus can be changed as with the reclassification of cories that Gary posted about a few days ago. The species part is not changed. The species name is often from the name of the discoverer or a person who is being honoured. Neon tetras are named after William T Innes.
 
sorry, I replied, before reading your response...

( edited ) so to put this back into perspective...


I'm using this link for example... ( and they may not be using the newly redefined Cory standards??? )

so everything within the "Corydoras" were the same genus... the Hoplisoma, Osteogaster, Aspidoras, on this page, while listed with "Cory's" aren't actually Cory's???, & in theory, each of these genus could interbreed with others of the same genus, do they need to be the same species??? but if each of the 4 listed above were in the same tank, those could not interbreed...

...to muddy the waters some, I'm sure I have seen Osteogaster listed somewhere with another fish I have ( maybe it was just similar )???
 
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@Essjay ... said...Neon tetra - Paracheirodon innesi
Paracheirodon is the genus name, innesi is the species name.

so variety would in this case be Regular, Green, Albino???
and the Genus & Species would have to be the same to breed, so the varieties could interbreed, but not with anything that wasn't the same genus & species???

so to specifically answer my op...
Corydoras aeneus, are the genus & species of my albinos cory's... my black ones are Corydoras schultzei... so they are both Corydoras Genus, but different species... so they can't inter breed ???

but if I were to add Corydoras aeneus, non albino, those could breed, as they are the same genus, & species, but are different varieties???
 
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No, everything within 'Corydoras' were the same genus - Corydoras is the first part of the scientific name.

Taxonomists are always changing their minds, moving a fish from one genus to another or even creating a new genus to move a fish into. The invention of DNA testing means that they can be more accurate nowadays which is why fish - and other animals and plants - are being re-examined and reclassified.

When they were first discovered, they were named as Hoplisoma etc, then someone decided they were all Corydoras so their genus names were changed. Now they've realised they are different genuses after all so they've reclassified them and given them new genus names.

For interbreeding, I think it means it will be impossible, for a fish in say Hoplisoma genus to breed with a fish in say Osteogaster genus. Science has never accepted that members of different genuses could cross breed; only members of the same genus can cross breed and even then only in certain cases. So it may be possible that one Hoplisoma species could interbreed with another Hoplisoma species, for example, but unlikely.



I've been trying to find Byron's post on cory lineages which explains things well, and possibly the lineages he talked about are represented by the new classifications. If I find the post, I'll post a link to it.
 
so variety would in this case be Regular, Green, Albino???
and the Genus & Species would have to be the same to breed, so the varieties could interbreed, but not with anything that wasn't the same genus & species???
Exactly :)
 
So you have a Genus name. It's an umbrella name. You can have TFFis as a genus. Within is in it, we can have the species. TFFis magnummanensis could be one, with TFFis essjayensis as another. T. essjayensis could have dorsal filaments, and magnumanensis could have purple spots and green eyes. They would never meet in nature. They'd have different accents and social behaviour. TFFis Garyeis would be a fantastically handsome species known to dig itself into holes with stretched examples.
They would be related, but usually isolated by natural barriers for long enough periods that they were different. They wouldn't interbreed, but all their young would look like the parents.
If the species had only recently diverged (a few thousand years) maybe hybrids would be possible, but they might not be likely. They could breed mules, which would not have a scientific name because they were one off creatures that wouldn't have a future. And it would be generally safe to keep them with Otherforumensis uncooloserae.

Some young species cross easily, like Poecilia livebearers, or Melanotaenia rainbows, which compared to most fish, are new arrivals. Ancient fish, like killies, which have been around 150 million years or so, are less likely to hybridize. But life is a shrubbery - and new species are the tips of the recent growth. They're much more likely to cross, because they aren't set in their genetic paths yet.

In my Gabon adventure, we found several species that were "new", ie, they had never been studied by scientists. We gave samples to the Ichthyologists working on the groups, and for now, gave them temporary names based on where they were caught and who caught them. So if we caught a fish we didn't recognize after checking the serious sources, but we could identify the Genus, they were named as, for example TFFis sp. Paris.
The "sp." stands for species unknown, and Paris says where we caught it. We caught a tiny barb that really looked like Enteromius jae. But there, we have a complicated group of possibly different species that look almost the same. If I shared my jae with a breeder who had a genetically different but really similar one (the DNA is important with similar looking species), that breeder would get mules and I would have wrecked his/her project. So they are labelled Enteromius cf. jae, meaning really similar to, but uncertain.
Once we get organized, it will be possible to use a code, in our case GCDELMM 23 and a number. That will allow each discovery to be looked up, with its GPS coordinates, water parameters, temperature, etc. G is for Gabon, 23 is the year and the other letters are the first initial of the family names of the fishers, to identify which expedition.
 
Gary, I love ya man... but now I'm confused... now I know why I'm not trying to breed anything but Tilapia, and that's not even going great ;)
 
Krib Cichlids. They're a good example. When a new species is described, the preserved fish used to describe them are deposited in a museum collection. The leader of my trip, Anton Lamboj, is an Ichthyologist who studies Central and West African Cichlids. He took DNA data and compared the old museum specimens to modern fish.
The genus for kribs is Pelvicachromis. Sometime 80 or 90 years ago, an importer made a mistake and said his new imports from Nigeria were Pelvicachromis kribensis. So they became kribs.
There is a real P. kribensis, in Cameroon, and it was sold as P taeniatus. There's also a P taeniatus, in southern Nigeria. So the hobby name is wrong, and the real kribensis is rare (and far far nicer), and we're all confused. But the DNA isn't - it's clear.
 
But are you breeding Tilapia? They could be Oreochromis or Sarathrodon. Or even Coptodon!

I'm evil. Muhahahha.
 

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