Will this stocking work for a 450 gallon tank ?

[anewbie]

I remember talking about the second tank now I think both tanks are viable, I understand the concerns around the activity levels of the Clowns around the Angels but I do think in a 10 by 3 foot tank we are probably going to be ok.

The only thing I would be tempted to look at is the Co2 purely on a feasability side of things, I'm assuming cost isnt too much of an issue for you lol but you would need serious volumes of gas. Have you thought of how to do it? I'd probably look at reactors which work with an inline system on your filters you are meant to get a good distribution from them in big tanks too.

One slightly contentious thing... I would be tempted to just do a big group of Angels, Festiums look nice for their first year or so but when they get big they are kind of ugly IMO, they get really bulky and their fins stay relaxed more than up. Just a personal opinion though An interesting alternative if you could find them might be Laetacara Thayeri? Ocupy the same area, look fantastic and a similar size.

Wills

Thank you for the feedback. Ok. I guess when most people talk about the festiums being 4inch they are talking about females. I guess i will skip them. One of the dangers in collecting advice from others - after your comment - now that I knew what to look for i found a few other folks who had encountered the issue you described that they were far more aggressive as they aged and the males were 6 to 8 inches which would make them a bit problematic. The Laetacara Thayeri might be a better fit from a quick check. One concern is 78 is near the top of their temp range. If i can't find them i could always go with one of the larger apistogramma i guess or maybe one of the acara. I've heard eba are a bit pushy also and not a good fit around angels.
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I've started thinking about the co2 issue. First i don't intend to maximize co2 input but just add enough to give a boost - around .5 ph drop. I would definitely use a reactor - the difficulty is locating them - as places like co2art does not sell them. Seems most people are interested in small tank with little diffusers. It would have to be on the sump return. Also the sump will be in the basement below the tank which would allow for larger co2 tank - maybe a 20 or 50 lb. I figure a 50lb tank would last 6 to 9 months for both tanks. The local welding shop sells/fills them for not too much. I think the hardest part is going to be finding a quality reactor. I guess if i were smart i would split the co2 to return on all four sump pumps. Not sure i'm looking for examples from other people.

 

[Wills]

Thank you for the feedback. Ok. I guess when most people talk about the festiums being 4inch they are talking about females. I guess i will skip them. One of the dangers in collecting advice from others - after your comment - now that I knew what to look for i found a few other folks who had encountered the issue you described that they were far more aggressive as they aged and the males were 6 to 8 inches which would make them a bit problematic. The Laetacara Thayeri might be a better fit from a quick check. One concern is 78 is near the top of their temp range. If i can't find them i could always go with one of the larger apistogramma i guess or maybe one of the acara. I've heard eba are a bit pushy also and not a good fit around angels.
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I've started thinking about the co2 issue. First i don't intend to maximize co2 input but just add enough to give a boost - around .5 ph drop. I would definitely use a reactor - the difficulty is locating them - as places like co2art does not sell them. Seems most people are interested in small tank with little diffusers. It would have to be on the sump return. Also the sump will be in the basement below the tank which would allow for larger co2 tank - maybe a 20 or 50 lb. I figure a 50lb tank would last 6 to 9 months for both tanks. The local welding shop sells/fills them for not too much. I think the hardest part is going to be finding a quality reactor. I guess if i were smart i would split the co2 to return on all four sump pumps. Not sure i'm looking for examples from other people.

It's only my opinion on the festivums, I just think they look a bit plain sometimes - they are a largely grey fish with the stripe, though they do have a unique shape. I think I've just had too many 'interesting' brown and grey cichlids and for me I'd stick to the bright colours like Nics, Sals, Electric Blues etc.

I suggested the Thayeri as they have quite similar behaviour to the Festiums, upper open water swimmers, similar basic markings but much more showy with a lot of blue in their fins and a nice irridecence. If that route did open up the idea of Acaras I think the EBAs would be ok, its a big tank I dont think they would pose any greater risk to the Angels than the Festivums. If you are going down the Acara route the other one to consider would be Krobia Xinguensis - formerly known as sp.red cheek. When they mature its a really awesome fish with a lot of orange in the face and body.

For the EBAs check out Oliver Knotts big tank where he has them in a 3000ltr tank with a big group of Albino Threadfin Acaras.

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For a Co2 reactor, check out George Farmers Discus tank on his youtube channel, I can't remember the brand but it would be a good starting point

Wills

 

[anewbie]

It's only my opinion on the festivums, I just think they look a bit plain sometimes - they are a largely grey fish with the stripe, though they do have a unique shape. I think I've just had too many 'interesting' brown and grey cichlids and for me I'd stick to the bright colours like Nics, Sals, Electric Blues etc.

I suggested the Thayeri as they have quite similar behaviour to the Festiums, upper open water swimmers, similar basic markings but much more showy with a lot of blue in their fins and a nice irridecence. If that route did open up the idea of Acaras I think the EBAs would be ok, its a big tank I dont think they would pose any greater risk to the Angels than the Festivums. If you are going down the Acara route the other one to consider would be Krobia Xinguensis - formerly known as sp.red cheek. When they mature its a really awesome fish with a lot of orange in the face and body.

For the EBAs check out Oliver Knotts big tank where he has them in a 3000ltr tank with a big group of Albino Threadfin Acaras.

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For a Co2 reactor, check out George Farmers Discus tank on his youtube channel, I can't remember the brand but it would be a good starting point

Wills

Ok thanks. I want to make clear the threads i found the festivums talked about how they became rather nasty bullies after 2/3ish years - they started out nice and peaceful but degraded over time. Of course angels are not exactly angels (my set are mostly siblings but now at the 14 months mark are becoming more bickery) so maybe that shouldn't be surprising. After reading folks comments on the threadfin i've dropped those as being too large (i realize you were not recommending them but just mentioning the tank).

How would you compare the thayeri to the Krobia Xinguensis with regards to fitting in the planned tank - behavior and compatibility? I wont' have time to really explore these species (beyond reading others opinion) and would you recommend them over eba (another common fish but one i have not played with).
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One concern i do have with this tank are the clown loaches. I have had 5 for 2 years now (i'm expanding the group to 10 when i move and setup the larger tank) and 2 of them are now pushing 6 inches. While extremely peaceful they will not be small. I realize they are suppose to slow down considerably over time but if i keep this tank running 10 or 15 years we could imagine them getting quite large. I have one steady issue with one of the clown (they do not stay together during the day but rather have split into different groups). One of them has been er taking over my lemon bn cave. This is a smallish lemon - around 3 1/2 inches and significantly less bulk than the clown - so he doesn't attack the clown but he spends the day er wagging his tail at him trying to encourage him to leave. A rather unhappy situation. At one point the clown went in there and not only evicted the bn but evicted the bn's eggs (he didn't eat them). Anyway it is an amusing unexpected interaction and i hope it stays non-violent.

 

[DancingBetta]

Where do you even GET a 450 gallon tank? That’s huge!

 

[Avel1896]

It is a dream...... that came true !!

 

[anewbie]

Where do you even GET a 450 gallon tank? That’s huge!

I will be purchasing it from customaquariums

 

[Callisto405]

In 450 gallons you will never see the Tetras unless they are in a school of 100 or more. Leave the Chocolate Cichlids out. Up the size of the schools of everything else.

Th

I'm thinking of a 450 gallon tank - 10 ft long 3 ft wide and 2 ft high. The tank will have fairly dense plants in the back and some plants in the front.
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4 mesonauta festivus
16 angelfish
2 chocolate cichlid
30 lemon tetra
30 white fin rosy tetra
20 pangio meyers
10 clown loaches
10 zebra loaches
8 flash pleco
2 blue phantom pleco

I'm a bit concern the lemon tetra, kuhli loaches and maybe white fin rosy will become snacks for the chocolate. The white fin are fairly large for tetra and the lemon are not small but maybe the chocolate has a big enough mouth to stomach them ? The kuhli are small but pretty fast.
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Mod -- thanks for editing the post that was pretty silly of me but at least i am a newbie
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The required fishes in this tank are the angelfishes, flash pleco, clown loaches and zebra loaches. Everything else can be adjusted as well as the exact number of clown, zebra and angels.

I would leave the cichlids and any aggressive fish out and do all tetras (specifically Congo, Candy Cane and Rummy nose Tetras), Rasboras and Hatchetfish for the top level. 25 ottos, 50 Ghost Shrimp, 15 Corydoras and a couple Semi-large growing pleco

 

[Colin_T]

Where do you even GET a 450 gallon tank? That’s huge!

they get custom made by tank builders. Some will build the tank on sight and others build them in a factory and ship them to your house.

 

[itiwhetu]

One of three things has to be true if you are going to have a 450 gallon tank

You have a very large House

You have a very understanding Partner

You live alone.

And that is without stating the obvious you have a strong floor to stand the tank on.

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

In a 450, you can do a lot of things. Here is a list of different things:

- African Cichlid tank

African Cichlids tend to get smaller, depending on what you get. In a 450, you can have a real colony. A Frontosa colony would be great. Frontosa’s are really pretty, and can be super rewarding if you get a large colony.

- Bottom Dweller tank

Bottom dweller tanks are super cool. There are so many bottom dwellers. Bichirs, which are the best, would be a great idea. A large African biotype with Mokele-Mbembe Bichirs, Spiny Eels, cichlids, and tetras Would be cool. Of course, highlighting the eels and bichirs.

- Large oddballs

Oddballs are my downright favorite. Knifefish are one of them. Pelican Knifefish are super cool, and super rare. They are rarely seen, and very personable. If you are interested in these, let me know.

- Large Community tank

A large community tank would be cool, and as rewarding as predatory tanks. 100s of Neon Tetras, and other smaller groups of tetras and a large group of corys would be sick.

- Native tank

Native fish are also super cool. A predatory group of Sunfish and bullheads would be awesome

- Coldwater tank

A lot of fish, like Goldfish, are coldwater, Goldfish aren’t as cool as predatory fish, IMO, but they are showy, and cute. If you want the tank for decoration, this is your best fish.

- Single predatory fish

Large predators, such as freshwater stingrays, Jardinis, Arrowanas, etc, would be the coolest tank, Freshwater Stingrays would be cool. The minimal footprint for a freshwater stingray is 8x4’, but if you do, this would be my top choice. **Note. Do not consider if you live in Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Mississippi, Nevada, Oklahoma, Texas, or Utah.**

- Bass

Peacock Bass are another cool fish. You do have quite a small tank for them, but they will fit. You can probably manage a pair.

- Pleco-only tank

Plecos are another cool one. They don’t move often, but if you like this hobby, and would l8r the idea of rare, expensive fish, these guys will do great. You can get any Pleco with that tank size. You can get quite a few, depending on the size.

Let me know if you like any of these, and I will go into more depth about them.

 

[itiwhetu]

I have been thinking about what I would do with a project like this, and have decided I would replicate this,

Silver dollars and their young

So you have a better idea of who I am I thought I would share this with you. After breeding fish for many years commercially I decided that the true test of a community system (furnished aquarium) was if the fish would breed and raise their young. This silver dollar picture shows the parents and...

www.fishforums.net

To make it work I would run a divide the full length of the tank about 12 inches from the back wall. Then I would plant that and use it as a bio filter to make the tank stable. The plant that section produces I would use to feed the Silver Dollars.

Your main problem with this tank that you are designing is that all the fish will hang out at the back of the tank and you will never see them.

 

[anewbie]

Th

I would leave the cichlids and any aggressive fish out and do all tetras (specifically Congo, Candy Cane and Rummy nose Tetras), Rasboras and Hatchetfish for the top level. 25 ottos, 50 Ghost Shrimp, 15 Corydoras and a couple Semi-large growing pleco

The first post list the required fishes for this stocking. I.e, the angels will definitely be in the tank as well as the loaches so I suspect the shrimps would last at most a day. The only non-SA fishes I will consider for this tank are loaches. There are millions of way one could stock the tank but many of those are off the table due to the constraints i have laid out.

 

[anewbie]

I have been thinking about what I would do with a project like this, and have decided I would replicate this,

Silver dollars and their young

So you have a better idea of who I am I thought I would share this with you. After breeding fish for many years commercially I decided that the true test of a community system (furnished aquarium) was if the fish would breed and raise their young. This silver dollar picture shows the parents and...

www.fishforums.net

To make it work I would run a divide the full length of the tank about 12 inches from the back wall. Then I would plant that and use it as a bio filter to make the tank stable. The plant that section produces I would use to feed the Silver Dollars.

Your main problem with this tank that you are designing is that all the fish will hang out at the back of the tank and you will never see them.

My angels (in a 120) are very good at getting their frys to free swimming. Unfortunately as a community tank once the frys start swimming they don't last long - the biggest predator of frys (and for that matter eggs) are well other angels...

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

We need pics of the tank

 

[anewbie]

We need pics of the tank

Well this is the current tank (120 gallon) with my angels. The 450 will be setup next spring: