wild caught fish

[cichlidmaster]

There is a difference between stating "can"t" be bred as opposed to saying "have not" been bred.

Perhaps the reason they have not been bred yet is because it is easier to bring them in wild and not due to an inability to breed them.

I can recall not to long ago plecos were thought of as unbreedable in a home aquarium and now it is becoming easier every day.

Perhaps that is something you should give a go at......wouldn't it be great to ba able to say you were the first person to breed them in captivity??

CM

 

[devinf]

the problem isn't so much that the fish are being taken from the wild, it is the method in which they are caught...

The best way is to hand collect the fish, best for the animals/breeding and the environment. But many large quantity collectors add cyanide and other chemicals to the water in order to stun the fish long enough to scoop up large numbers of them.

So one thing you can ask your LFS is if the people they buy their fish from either a) breed them themselves or B) are they caught in the wild and if so, are they caught safely?

Make a fuss about it too. The only way we'll change how things are done is to make noise and not lend our financial support to those that do harmful things.

Devin

 

[sharkbait]

Having gotten the tropical fish bug via regularly visiting the critters in their natural environment using Scuba. ( A 40m dive in the African rift valley in search of ciclids sounds like one to put on my to do list.) The consequences of unregulated collection do concern me perhaps more than others. I would hate to be sustaining a bunch of cowboys fishing with cyanide to make a few bucks before moving onto the next bit of river.
I think it matters where the fish come from.
Obviously fish have to be removed from the wild at some point. The key point must be, that this is done on an ecologically sustainable level. eg. Some form of farming or monitored collection.

Until we start to:
a) care about their natural habitat.
B) Ask where and how they were collected.

I suspect the method of collection will be based upon economics rather than conservation.

Ever wondered what the mortality rate for the cardinals is before they reach the shop? I dunno, but I suspect most fish would take their chances with the diner plate.

Frankly IMHO I think the argument that we are saving poor fishes from a South American dinner plate is rather naive. There may be some merit in the introducing of new stock to the gene pool, but the tatty appearance of captive bred fish may be more to do with the conditions thay are being raised in. lets face it, keeping fish alive can be difficult, let alone breeding them.
With marine fish the ecological damage done by collectors is clearly minimal compared to commercial fishing which all current research is showing is devastating world fish stocks, however river systems are more unique and sustained collection could have dire effects on a local scale.
I'm just arguing we should think before we buy.

 

[cichlidmaster]

But many large quantity collectors add cyanide and other chemicals to the water in order to stun the fish long enough to scoop up large numbers of them.

Cyanide is illegal to use. Although I am not naive enought to think it is never used, it is used mainly in the collection of marine specimens.

Frankly IMHO I think the argument that we are saving poor fishes from a South American dinner plate is rather naive.

I don't recall an "argument" based on this. It was simply a comment that a good number of species we consider aquarium inhabitants are simply food fish in their native lands.

The consequences of unregulated collection do concern me perhaps more than others. I would hate to be sustaining a bunch of cowboys fishing with

The collection of cichlids along the coastlines of Lake Malawi, Tanganyika and Victoria are strictly regulated.

Many permits are needed to collect and remove fish from these locals. To date there are only a select few collectors even allowed to operate stations along these lakes.

There may be some merit in the introducing of new stock to the gene pool, but the tatty appearance of captive bred fish may be more to do with the conditions thay are being raised in

Even poor breeding tank conditions do not play a roll in genetic deformaties!! This occurs from to much inbreeding (breeding brother to sister) due to the unavailablity of new stock!!

Introducing wild specimens into any captive breeding program is and will always be an essential part of producing healthy stock!!!

Now if anyone here who lives in the state would like some nice wild cardinal tetras (as well as any other number of wild specimens) just let me know as I have a very reliable connection to them weekly!!


CM

 

[Poot]

A guy in the LFS told me that wild caught cardianls are actually a sustainable resorce of the area and actually prevent deforestation through providing an industry that requires the rivers to be in good condition. I looked around the web and found this if anybody wants to find out more.

 

[Alien Anna]

A guy in the LFS told me that wild caught cardianls are actually a sustainable resorce of the area and actually prevent deforestation through providing an industry that requires the rivers to be in good condition. I looked around the web and found this if anybody wants to find out more.

I heard the same thing, from an entirely different source, so I strongly suspect it to be true.

 

[cory]

There is a difference between stating "can"t" be bred as opposed to saying "have not" been bred.

Perhaps the reason they have not been bred yet is because it is easier to bring them in wild and not due to an inability to breed them.

I can recall not to long ago plecos were thought of as unbreedable in a home aquarium and now it is becoming easier every day.

Perhaps that is something you should give a go at......wouldn't it be great to ba able to say you were the first person to breed them in captivity??

CM

Yes, you're right about using "can't" vs "have not," in my post.
It all goes back to something I said the other day, about inconsistancies in available info all over the web. Three sites and two books will say a species of fish "can't" be bred in capitivity, while seven other sites, along with five other books will simply say this fish being bred in captivity is "unheard of."

As for me being the first to be "heard of" on this matter....I don't really have the patience. Maybe mother nature will just handle it for me.

 

[cory]

My redhooks, my pride and joy, are mere gutter fish, in Central America, and, food for natives along the Amazon

Your redhooks are not alone in being food fish in their native countries, you would be shocked to find out just how little fish we pay hundreds of pounds for are sold for in small local markets all over the world. One example is the M.tigrinus (zebra shovelnose catfish), even small specimins cost in excess of £200 to buy (if your lucky enough to even find one), but in S.America they are just another food fish for the native indians.
Bala sharks, gouramis, snakeheads, many large cichlids and hundreds of other fish we keep from all over the world all find their way into the cooking pot of hungry natives

There are probably people sitting around the magic computer moniter that was brought into their native village by the missionaries, and their probably laughing their asses off at how much we pay for these fish that they eat.

Ok, just for kicks... Let's all go to the Betta Forum and tell the fanatics that smoked betta will be featured on Jamie Olivers cooking show, tomorrow!!

 

[AquaNut]

We, as aquarists, keep fish for our own selfish reasons. We keep them because we like watching them and we enjoy the challenge of keeping/breeding different species. I'm sure some people have other reasons for keeping them, too, but we definitely don't keep them for the fishes' sake. It's all about us. I think it's good for fishkeepers to be aware of where their fish are coming from and the conditions in the fishes' native areas. Perhaps some people would respect their fish more if they stopped to think that they used to be swimming freely in the Amazon River and now dwell in our miniscule (even the largest home aquarium fits this description) aquaria for our personal enjoyment and entertainment.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Ok, just for kicks... Let's all go to the Betta Forum and tell the fanatics that smoked betta will be featured on Jamie Olivers cooking show, tomorrow!!

hey now....HEY NOW!!!!

 

[guppymonkey]

I have a hard time justifying to myself buying wild caught fish. While I am sure that many of them end up happier and living better lives in captivity (instead of in someone or something's belly) many of these fish die. The process of catching and transporting these fish is usually not very humane. Big nets thrown from boats dragging the fish up and then being shoved into boxes and mailed around the world. Many fish obviously can not survive these stressful conditions.

Many of the fish to once be thought to be unbreedable in captivity in the past are now being bred. Many of the books I have looked at say that certain species have never been bred in captivity (like plecos) but I have met people that have bred them. Some people say you have to introduce wild caught fish so that species (and strains) do not become weak or deformed. Many of the strains of fish were produced by selective breeding so I don't really see how wild fish would help them. And I don't see how species could become weak with the (at least) thousands to millions of individual fish from these species in captivity.

It just seems cruel to me with the practices the many of these wild fish are caught. Its bad enough seeing how poorly most pet stores maintain their tanks, with dead fish floating around and being eaten by the other tank occupants. I can not imagine how horrible the conditions can be in the containers that the wild fish are transported in. I know that some fish are transported more humanely but that does not justify (in my mind) the rest of them.

Sorry, I seem to be preaching.