Why Won´t My Yoyo Loaches Eat Bottom Feeder Pellets?

[oceanArnold]

So about two days ago I got two yoyo loaches to add to my tank. My dwarf chain loach had always just eaten the snails in my tank, but when I added the yoyo´s by the end of the day there were no snails yet. The problem is that I have attempted to thus feed my dwarf chain loach (who I have had for a year) and the yoyo´s pellets and even a tablet and they showed no intrest and yet they are all frantically searching through the gravel like they are starving. What do I do?

 

[gwand]

Ask the fish store where you bought the yo yo what they were feeding them. Sometimes new fish will reject new food.

 

[anewbie]

If young it will likely prefer flakes as it gets older it will be more open to tackle harder to eat food. I mean pellets are not the easiest thing for them to break apart; though once they have been soaking a while and begin to break down it might go after the bits and pieces. In general even adult yoyo loaches prefer smaller (1mm) foods or soft foods they can break apart. I feed my adult yoyo loaches and clown loaches (5-7 inches) smaller foods. They also like soft foods they can rip apart - some might go after raw shrimp; and well my clown loaches (and adult yoyo) are always up for a large piece of zuc they can dig into:

 

[Colin_T]

It's preferable to only have one species of loach per tank and to keep them in groups consisting of at least 6 (preferably 10+) individuals. Having two species that are different sizes will usually cause problems to the smaller more peaceful species.

 

[anewbie]

It's preferable to only have one species of loach per tank and to keep them in groups consisting of at least 6 (preferably 10+) individuals. Having two species that are different sizes will usually cause problems to the smaller more peaceful species.

Well.... i have 6 yoyo and 12 clown loaches and 10 zebra loaches. While i agree they should be kept in a group i also think groups of mixed species works - of course it depends on the species. In this case these three species are capable of co-existing. The zebra is a bit of an outlier since it is both smaller and much more passive. The clowns and yoyo leave them alone and they only occasionally join the larger loaches in play. Also the zebra are just assertive enough to get food.

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What i don't think works well is keeping for example a solo yoyo with 5 clown loaches. In my tank the different species have their on preferred locations - and oddly enough individuals seem to have their own prefer locations sometime away from the pack. For example one of my yoyo prefer to hang out by itself under a small piece of driftwood - it is a smaller male.

 

[oceanArnold]

If young it will likely prefer flakes as it gets older it will be more open to tackle harder to eat food. I mean pellets are not the easiest thing for them to break apart; though once they have been soaking a while and begin to break down it might go after the bits and pieces. In general even adult yoyo loaches prefer smaller (1mm) foods or soft foods they can break apart. I feed my adult yoyo loaches and clown loaches (5-7 inches) smaller foods. They also like soft foods they can rip apart - some might go after raw shrimp; and well my clown loaches (and adult yoyo) are always up for a large piece of zuc they can dig into:
View attachment 349984

Ok ya the pellets are about half the size of a pea, and my yoyo loaches are 4 inches long so I figured it would be ok. What brand of food, and what type do you feed your clown loaches?

 

[oceanArnold]

It's preferable to only have one species of loach per tank and to keep them in groups consisting of at least 6 (preferably 10+) individuals. Having two species that are different sizes will usually cause problems to the smaller more peaceful species.

So all of them are peaceful, and because my chain loach is apart of the botia family and so are my yoyos they are social, and actually my chain has been hunting along side the yoyos, odd behavior but it seems to have no ill effect on him.

 

[anewbie]

So all of them are peaceful, and because my chain loach is apart of the botia family and so are my yoyos they are social, and actually my chain has been hunting along side the yoyos, odd behavior but it seems to have no ill effect on him.

The thing is that an adult yoyo is like 4 to 8 times the mass of the dwarf chain - not just longer but greater girth esp a female yoyo. One of my female yoyo is nearly the size of the largest clown loach (currently as the clown loach has a long ways to go in growth); my guess is that it is 6+ inches long and nearly an inch wide. It is substantially larger than the males i have which stay a lot slimmer.

As for food i feed them a lot of fluval bug bite (blue and red - i started grinding up the red and mixing in algae max); algae max-regular; a few sera or omega-one flakes - the thing is that my 600 is a community tank so i'm feeding for a lot of different species not just the loaches. - for example i put in the greens for the plecos but the loaches are big green eaters. The flakes are really intended for the schoolers and head-standers but the loaches (esp the zebra) find them much more amendable than larger food.
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I'm really fond of zebra loaches but i wouldn't mix them with dwarf chain as they are much more passive 'quiet' fish. I have one bold fellow that will come up to be hand fed (this is a new thing as for years like the others he avoided me). I think it got hungry or something. Long terms i'll probalby not buy anymore zebra loaches because the clowns will get so much larger - also when the yoyo age out i'll probably not replace them. But on to your question - i feed them small pellets (fluval blue) or ground up fluval red and a bit of fluval for bottom feeders since it has peas mixed in it as well as high-quality flakes or algae-max (nls) regular (which is the smallest size). The one negative of algae-max is some of it will float which annoys me - luckily the flag cichild and chocolate cichilds will clean up the mess but that is my aquarium.

 

[oceanArnold]

The thing is that an adult yoyo is like 4 to 8 times the mass of the dwarf chain - not just longer but greater girth esp a female yoyo. One of my female yoyo is nearly the size of the largest clown loach (currently as the clown loach has a long ways to go in growth); my guess is that it is 6+ inches long and nearly an inch wide. It is substantially larger than the males i have which stay a lot slimmer.

As for food i feed them a lot of fluval bug bite (blue and red - i started grinding up the red and mixing in algae max); algae max-regular; a few sera or omega-one flakes - the thing is that my 600 is a community tank so i'm feeding for a lot of different species not just the loaches. - for example i put in the greens for the plecos but the loaches are big green eaters. The flakes are really intended for the schoolers and head-standers but the loaches (esp the zebra) find them much more amendable than larger food.
--
I'm really fond of zebra loaches but i wouldn't mix them with dwarf chain as they are much more passive 'quiet' fish. I have one bold fellow that will come up to be hand fed (this is a new thing as for years like the others he avoided me). I think it got hungry or something. Long terms i'll probalby not buy anymore zebra loaches because the clowns will get so much larger - also when the yoyo age out i'll probably not replace them. But on to your question - i feed them small pellets (fluval blue) or ground up fluval red and a bit of fluval for bottom feeders since it has peas mixed in it as well as high-quality flakes or algae-max (nls) regular (which is the smallest size). The one negative of algae-max is some of it will float which annoys me - luckily the flag cichild and chocolate cichilds will clean up the mess but that is my aquarium.

Ok thank you so much.

 

[anewbie]

Also don't be shocked if it takes a fish a couple of days to adjust to a new food; this is not unusual - a well fed fish can go several weeks without eating.

 

[oceanArnold]

Also don't be shocked if it takes a fish a couple of days to adjust to a new food; this is not unusual - a well fed fish can go several weeks without eating.

Ya at this point I am going to go with they will eat when they get hungry enough. But in case they do become too thin I have a back up plan. I have just put a few of the remaining snails in a glass vase with a lid and they can breed so that there will be more snails just in case.

 

[fishorama]

You need to find some (a few kinds) of prepared foods your fish will eat on a regular basis. Snails are just a "treat" as are frozen foods. You can create fussy fish if they only eat 1 kind of food, as anewbie said. They can go a long time without their preferred food. Try feeding small amounts of a different kind of food. Vacuum out uneaten food & try something else the next feeding. Some of my loaches learned to eat veggies like zucchini when I made slits in the veg & shoved in a pellet or bit of wafer. Leave uneaten food, veg or pellet, no more than 24 hours. Then try the next food. My loaches liked earthworm or shrimp pellets, but would eat flakes or wafers too.

As you've been told, most loaches like to be in a minimal group of at least 5 or 6. They really don't act "normal" with fewer.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

So all of them are peaceful, and because my chain loach is apart of the botia family and so are my yoyos they are social, and actually my chain has been hunting along side the yoyos, odd behavior but it seems to have no ill effect on him.

You also have to remember that the fish you've just bought from a store are juveniles. Behaviours can and will change as they grow and mature, especially once they reach breeding age and become more territorial and interested in potentially breeding.

A lot of people buy fish, come here and say "but I've had them for months and they all get along really well!" not accounting for the fact the fish are all still juveniles, and their adult behaviours haven't kicked in yet. Then return when disaster happens.

Not saying your mixing yoyos with dwarf chains will necessarily lead to disaster! As @anewbie said, you can sometimes mix different species of botiid loach in the same tank without issues, or with minimal issues, if you know what you're doing, the tank is large enough, and- crucially - if each species has enough of the same species.

Botiid loaches are intelligent, curious, boisterous, and social fish, and as others said, your yoyos will grow much larger than the dwarf chain, and might well bully them, along with bullying each other. My dad kept two yoyos in his tank for years, and looking back now with a more experienced and knowledgeable eye, and I can see how stressful that was for them. Because one will always be dominant over the other, and make sure the other knows it. He had a large, chunky female, and a smaller, sleeker male, and I loved when I visited and watched the tank and they emerged from their hiding spots! Loved watching those guys.

But one, the bigger female, actually, would often be chased away, aggressively, by the more dominant male. She'd also often "grey out", which means they're super stressed. With a larger group of the same species, that dominance and aggression is spread out among the group, who have established a pecking order, and the female, even if she was at the bottom of the pecking order, would have still had breaks from that aggression, since the male above her would also have to deal with the ones above HIM in the pecking order, you see what I mean?

But because it was just the two of them, it was relentless, and they didn't have a great quality of life, sadly.

Yoyos are one of my favourites, but when i get some, I want a minimum of five. They need a minimum of five of their own species, and they won't just form a social group with the dwarf chains, I'm sorry to say. Fish know what their own species are, and dwarf chains are so much smaller and more shy.

I don't know the size of the tank we're talking about here, but if possible, I'd recommending having at least 5-6 dwarf chains, and 5-6 yoyos, with a good amount of hiding spaces, hardscape and plants over the floor to provide places to hide and establish territories. Can make things like slate caves and areas, section of corners with plants, things that break lines of site, and give the fish places to rest, hide away and avoid when wanted, and places for these active and curious fish to explore. They love to squeeze into gaps (watch your filter intake! Had to rescue one of dad's yoyos when the outer sponge part of the filter intake fell off, and one of the yoyos had squeezed itself into the intake tube!), so things like PVC pipe and slate caves are welcomed by them.

The pages on the species on Seriously Fish, especially compatibility sections, will tell you a lot, worth reading the pages on both species. For example they say the same about their social needs:

(from Seriously Fish)
"Botia spp. are gregarious, form complex social hierarchies and should be maintained in groups of at least 5 or 6 specimens, preferably 10 or more.

When kept singly they can become withdrawn or aggressive towards similarly-shaped fishes, and if only a pair or trio are purchased the dominant individual may stress the other(s) to the extent that they stop feeding."

 

[oceanArnold]

You also have to remember that the fish you've just bought from a store are juveniles. Behaviours can and will change as they grow and mature, especially once they reach breeding age and become more territorial and interested in potentially breeding.

A lot of people buy fish, come here and say "but I've had them for months and they all get along really well!" not accounting for the fact the fish are all still juveniles, and their adult behaviours haven't kicked in yet. Then return when disaster happens.

Not saying your mixing yoyos with dwarf chains will necessarily lead to disaster! As @anewbie said, you can sometimes mix different species of botiid loach in the same tank without issues, or with minimal issues, if you know what you're doing, the tank is large enough, and- crucially - if each species has enough of the same species.

Botiid loaches are intelligent, curious, boisterous, and social fish, and as others said, your yoyos will grow much larger than the dwarf chain, and might well bully them, along with bullying each other. My dad kept two yoyos in his tank for years, and looking back now with a more experienced and knowledgeable eye, and I can see how stressful that was for them. Because one will always be dominant over the other, and make sure the other knows it. He had a large, chunky female, and a smaller, sleeker male, and I loved when I visited and watched the tank and they emerged from their hiding spots! Loved watching those guys.

But one, the bigger female, actually, would often be chased away, aggressively, by the more dominant male. She'd also often "grey out", which means they're super stressed. With a larger group of the same species, that dominance and aggression is spread out among the group, who have established a pecking order, and the female, even if she was at the bottom of the pecking order, would have still had breaks from that aggression, since the male above her would also have to deal with the ones above HIM in the pecking order, you see what I mean?

But because it was just the two of them, it was relentless, and they didn't have a great quality of life, sadly.

Yoyos are one of my favourites, but when i get some, I want a minimum of five. They need a minimum of five of their own species, and they won't just form a social group with the dwarf chains, I'm sorry to say. Fish know what their own species are, and dwarf chains are so much smaller and more shy.

I don't know the size of the tank we're talking about here, but if possible, I'd recommending having at least 5-6 dwarf chains, and 5-6 yoyos, with a good amount of hiding spaces, hardscape and plants over the floor to provide places to hide and establish territories. Can make things like slate caves and areas, section of corners with plants, things that break lines of site, and give the fish places to rest, hide away and avoid when wanted, and places for these active and curious fish to explore. They love to squeeze into gaps (watch your filter intake! Had to rescue one of dad's yoyos when the outer sponge part of the filter intake fell off, and one of the yoyos had squeezed itself into the intake tube!), so things like PVC pipe and slate caves are welcomed by them.

The pages on the species on Seriously Fish, especially compatibility sections, will tell you a lot, worth reading the pages on both species. For example they say the same about their social needs:

(from Seriously Fish)
"Botia spp. are gregarious, form complex social hierarchies and should be maintained in groups of at least 5 or 6 specimens, preferably 10 or more.

When kept singly they can become withdrawn or aggressive towards similarly-shaped fishes, and if only a pair or trio are purchased the dominant individual may stress the other(s) to the extent that they stop feeding."

Here is the problem, I only have a 30 gallon tank, I have had problems with aggressive fish before and they were brought back to a fish shop immediately. At the moment they seem to be doing well, if anything my chain loach is annoying the female yoyo. I do greatly appreciate your insight, but unfortunately with the tank size I have there is not much that I can do. The benefit of my tank is that it is set up for loaches, I rarely see my loaches because they are always hiding, this is why its hard to know if they are eating sometimes. I have found that they really like slate, I think it is because it is a smooth surface so I have at least 6 slate caves, a lava rock with several large holes with hiding spots, and some smooth perching river rocks. There is not much I can do to change the fish I have without having only 4 fish in the tank, the chain loach was a fluke and the place I get fish from will not be getting more. I think honestly the greatest aggressor at the moment is my hillstream loach who often attacks the yoyos. I have no idea why she has become so aggressive, she used to just hide under her slate, but its not a active aggression she only does it when they get close to her.
If you have any further advice it would be good to know, just know that I have limited space.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I get it, I know it can be rough!

But... not to encourage you to get into multiple tank syndrome, but perhaps a good opportunity to look about and see if you can make some room for a larger tank? A 55g-75g would do for a group of yoyos, and that's not much bigger than the one you have already, and tons of tanks going for cheap on Gumtree and FB marketplace

Even if it's a plan for later - they'll still be quite small right now since juveniles, and you don't want to wait too long and risk stunting their growth, but if you can do it in six months to a year and upgrade the tank size, it'll be more suitable for the size yoyo loaches reach, and for a group of them, possibly with the dwarf chains too, depending on the rest of the stocking and how they seem to get along.

It does sound as though you're doing all you can to make it loach friendly!
And please, don't take any of this as meaning to be critical of you, at all! Just want to help, and hopefully help you have long term success for you and your fish.

I'd honestly love to have dwarf chain loaches, but they're pretty expensive! How many do you have?
You could ask the store if they'd order some in and reserve them for you, most half decent stores will. If they won't, there are other stores and online sellers that would love your custom.

I don't have a lot of experience with hillstream loaches I'm afraid, only recently got my first one that's no trouble. There are a few different species though, so if you can get photos or video of yours, someone here will be able to ID it for you!

If the behaviour is new, might be reacting to changes in the tank (worth testing your water, if you have a test kit?) or it might be because it was a juvenile and is now maturing, and showing more territorial behaviour/searching for a mate, and being more bossy as a result. I think @Magnum Man has hillstreams and would have more insight than I do!

Seriously Fish is a really reliable site, in a sea of misinformation, and have pages on most every species you're likely to find in the hobby, so worth remembering to check there, especially before buying new fish to add. But we're all guilty of impulse buying fish, don't worry, not judging you there! I recently accepted a spotted hoplo someone gave me, and it changed my plans utterly and means I need to get more! And that's a 4-5 inch fish, lol. So while I like him and will adapt to suit him, it wasn't what I planned, but I accepted on impulse when she insisted he'd be fine with just my cories! But since found out he really needs at least a female, and more likely a group.