Why sometimes cross breeding results in some faults in body parts?

[Aniket]

I have seen some cross bred bettas with lack of ventral fins. And my betta fries are cross of VT and HM, one of my big fry having trouble in swimming as i posted last time. I thought he has bloating problem but he is always swimming backside down. His fins are fine. Ill post his pic

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

I have seen some cross bred bettas with lack of ventral fins. And my betta fries are cross of VT and HM, one of my big fry having trouble in swimming as i posted last time. I thought he has bloating problem but he is always swimming backside down. His fins are fine. Ill post his pic

There are two common reasons why you see deformity in you stocks.

1) poor genetics- this is the result of breeding too many related fish together. Breeding related individuals increases the risk of genetic caused deformities or problems hugely

2)poor adult nutrition or poor nutrition as a juvenile. lack of suitable juvenile nutrition, especially in the early stages can cause major problems later on in development. Whereas lack of nutrition for the adults can cause issues with development in embryos.

By the sounds of it you are seeing problems cause by inbreeding depression. 1st one rather than second..

 

[NickAu]

And my betta fries are cross of VT and HM,

Why did you cross a VT with a HM? What are you trying to breed for?

2)poor adult nutrition or poor nutrition as a juvenile.

Correct, Not feeding fry the right diet when young can cause it.

poor genetics-

Also correct, especially in low grade petshop Bettas

I still stand by my comments in other threads, The OP should not be breeding fish

 

[Colin_T]

I still stand by my comments in other threads, The OP should not be breeding fish

How are people meant to get experience breeding fish (or doing anything else) if they don't try?

The OP wants to breed fish so let them try. If worse comes to worst, they end up with a heap of duds that get destroyed. It's all experience and they should learn from it

 

[NickAu]

If the Op wants to breed fish thats fine but first he should research it instead of breeding then asking what to feed fry for example.

And some of the members on this site should stop encouraging bad fish keeping.

 

[Colin_T]

And some of the members on this site should stop encouraging bad fish keeping

NEVER

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

If the Op wants to breed fish thats fine but first he should research it instead of breeding then asking what to feed fry for example.

I agree with Nick, We research what our fish require when we are thinking of keeping them, we do all this before they breed. I can understand if they bred by accident ( eg if the fish are hard to sex for a beginner). But it doesn't take a quick google search, or to ask on here before the fact to find a good jumping off point to start learning. No one can research everything, but by looking into it just a bit you can really prevent a lot of unnecessary mistakes.

That being said, there is a good argument for gaining the hands on experience, but why not combine the both...

 

[NickAu]

My tips for breeding Bettas.

Do your research ask lots of questions.

Get the tanks and mason jars you will need, Cycle the tanks.
Know your genetics, Know what tail types you will get if you cross a VT with a HM for example.
Have a plan for what you will do with fry.
Get the Best quality male and female you can afford.
Make sure you have the needed food for the fry.
Introduce the female to the male, and breed away.

 

[Aniket]

NEVER

Im with your opinion. But some people stuck at one point and using their intellect to prove they are right. I can understand them. You are doing well. I post questions here only i wanted information from you.

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

Im with your opinion. But some people stuck at one point and using their intellect to prove they are right. I can understand them. You are doing well. I post questions here only i wanted information from you.

I think he is calling us smart @NickAu ?

Please don't take my comments as telling you not to do this. But what I want you to understand is that it takes more than putting two fish in a tank to breed fish. A little bit of reading before you start can really help you to understand more about what you need to do.
I never want to stop anyone in this hobby from doing anything, but I want them to do things with care and consideration. Producing 100's of deformed babies because you didn't do your reading beforehand just creates unnecessary suffering.

 

[NickAu]

I never want to stop anyone in this hobby from doing anything

I agree, What I want to see is people getting into breeding quality fish and enjoying the hobby, when people dont do things right whether it be fish keeping or breeding and things go badly wrong most abandon the hobby.




Right now there a 5 fish tanks in the local salvation army op shop near my place all from people who abandoned the hobby and donated the tanks to charity.

2 x 20 gallon $15 each one is an aqua one.
3 x 10 gallon $5 each.

 

[Aniket]

I think he is calling us smart @NickAu ?

Please don't take my comments as telling you not to do this. But what I want you to understand is that it takes more than putting two fish in a tank to breed fish. A little bit of reading before you start can really help you to understand more about what you need to do.
I never want to stop anyone in this hobby from doing anything, but I want them to do things with care and consideration. Producing 100's of deformed babies because you didn't do your reading beforehand just creates unnecessary suffering.

You should read older posts on my profile. You will get what im doing. About deformed babies, i dont know how many times you breed bettas or other fish. Deformation happens by mistakes or partially or fully wrong assumptions and calculations. No matter how good you are you always learn something that destroy your previous assumptions or calculations. You can see some very experienced experts also get sometimes deformed babies and they cull them. In real deformation did by human by crossing and inbreeding animals.
Suffering is optional. Sometimes reading and real experience has big difference. You learn other things by experiencing and if you go by reading then you can not learn more than someone wrought.
I need you to understand that im not saying anyone smart or dumb. Just invest your time in giving information instead of proving something you said in past.

 

[The Lumpfish Guy]

Right, we are all here trying to help you. Please don't see it as anything other than that. You clearly have been breeding you Betta's, great! And have some practical experience. What you appear to lack is the basic knowledge of the role genetics play in breeding fish.

About deformed babies, i dont know how many times you breed bettas or other fish.

I am a fish scientist who specialises in breeding fish, I have bred fish for my hobby and for work.

Deformation happens by mistakes or partially or fully wrong assumptions and calculations.

No, no they do not. Deformity's come from 1) genetics (as a result of inbreeding) or 2) nutrition (from parental nutrition or larval nutrition) or 3) poor water quality. All of which are avoidable
Some genetic mutations do happen by random chance, but these occur very rarely and don't often lead to huge physiological changes in generations.

You can see some very experienced experts also get sometimes deformed babies and they cull them.

Yes, you do. But this is a small percentage, and they know why they have them, how to improve and work towards reducing this.

Sometimes reading and real experience has big difference.

Yes again you are not wrong, But to be successful you need both.

Again, we are not trying to belittle your effort, or discourage you into doing this. But myself, Nick and Colin all have a wide range of experience and want to help you best we can.

Just invest your time in giving information instead of proving something you said in past.

We can't help you if you do not listen to us.

Please see some links below to help you get started in your research...[/QUOTE]

http://bettasource.com/more-betta/genetics/basic-colour-genetics-of-betta
https://www.ingloriousbettas.com/betta-genetics-color-and-form.html

 

[NickAu]

Heres some quality Bettas.

http://www.fishchick.com.au/shop

 

[Aniket]

Right, we are all here trying to help you. Please don't see it as anything other than that. You clearly have been breeding you Betta's, great! And have some practical experience. What you appear to lack is the basic knowledge of the role genetics play in breeding fish.

I know many of you are helping me but you will know if you read previous comments on my profile that was irritating. I have seen videos and sites you shared inglorious betta and joep masters betta territory etc. I bred VT male and HM female because those were only available at my place and it was my first time and as a science student i wanted to know by actual practical so i can get real practical answers.

[/QUOTE]
I am a fish scientist who specialises in breeding fish, I have bred fish for my hobby and for work.
[/QUOTE]
Thats good to hear


[/QUOTE]
No, no they do not. Deformity's come from 1) genetics (as a result of inbreeding) or 2) nutrition (from parental nutrition or larval nutrition) or 3) poor water quality. All of which are avoidable
Some genetic mutations do happen by random chance, but these occur very rarely and don't often lead to huge physiological changes in generations.
[/QUOTE]

Yes i said wrong calculations for genetic chart we create for dominant and recessive genes (sometimes it went wrong). Inbreeding keeps traits but will increase health problems so i will avoid that. Nutrition i provide them mosquito larvae and freeze dried bloodworms. For water quality i use indian almond leaves.


[/QUOTE]
Yes, you do. But this is a small percentage, and they know why they have them, how to improve and work towards reducing this.
[/QUOTE]
Yes you are right. They know how to reduce it. If i got problem like that then ill read or ask about it. If i dont get problem then ill stay away from it.

[/QUOTE]
Yes again you are not wrong, But to be successful you need both.

Again, we are not trying to belittle your effort, or discourage you into doing this. But myself, Nick and Colin all have a wide range of experience and want to help you best we can.
[/QUOTE]

Now i got about you and colin but not sure about nickAu

[/QUOTE]
We can't help you if you do not listen to us.
[/QUOTE]
If i was not listening then why i would ask questions here? Haha
Thank you