Why Can't I Keep My Danio's Alive ?

[Bloo]

I find this really bizarre and don't understand it. Advice / theories appreciated.

About 4 months ago I bought six lovely young Danio Hikari. Quite soon after they went into the tank (a week or so) I noticed there were only 5. It didn't worry me too much, as all other fish were healthy and water perfect, so just thought it's "one of those things".
But then approx 6 weeks ago, I noticed one of them had severe and very advanced dropsy and there was only one thing to do, and that was clove oil.
Last night the same thing to another one !
But this time it also had a few red splotches on it’s stomach (which looked like blood vessels). So clove oil again.

Again, water perfect, no ammonia or nitrite and nitrates are around 20.
This tank is approx 3.5 years old.

Weekly 40% water changes and massive Eheim external filter.
I haven’t lost any fish in this tank (apart from the Danio) in many many months – so long ago, I can’t even remember.

Now I know Dropsy is generally primarily a water quality problem, but I don't believe this to be the case here - unless I'm missing something obvious ??

Tank size 180 litres (47.5 US gallons).
Inhabitants:

2 Red Rainbows (4” each)
1 Boesmani Rainbow (5”),
1 Molly (2.5”),
1 Whiptail cat (4.5”),
1 Pictus cat (5.5”),
1 Kuhli Loach (2.5”),
1 L200 (3”),
3 Angelicus loaches (Botia Kubotai) (3.5” each),
1 Female Betta (2.5”),
1 CAE (yes I know ! it’s 3”, 3 years old and peaceful),
3 Danio Hikari (1.5” each)

 

[The-Wolf]

There are two things that can cause dropsy
one is water quality (or lack thereof)
the other is an internal bacterial problem.

My advice bloo
is to treat with interpet no9 anti internal bacterial
if things havn't improved by day 4 dose again.
if you need to dose a 3rd time perform a 50% water change first.

BTW a 40% water change every week is too much IMHO
I would only do a 20% at most.

 

[Bloo]

Thanks Paul - I take it that meds would be ok with current inhabitants ?
The thing is, there is nothing visible for me to "improve" upon. The fish seem very healthy and the last danio death was approx 6 weeks ago.

So dose at full strength no. 9 as per directions ?

 

[KerriPaul]

Sadly danios dying of dropsy is part and parcel of keeping danios. Their lifespan is 2-3 years only and because they are mostly from fast flowing streams they are quite prone to suffering internal bacterial infections in a tank situation where the water quality inevitably cannot match the streams

I have tended to find that flake food can bring it on - especially if there is too much in the tank and it decays a bit or - worse some gets caught around the tank lid and ferments before dropping into the water.

Wolfs advice is spot on, however I would also strongly consider melafix a natural antibacteiral agent - it makes the tank smell nice too!

There are two things that can cause dropsy
one is water quality (or lack thereof)
the other is an internal bacterial problem.

My advice bloo
is to treat with interpet no9 anti internal bacterial
if things havn't improved by day 4 dose again.
if you need to dose a 3rd time perform a 50% water change first.

BTW a 40% water change every week is too much IMHO
I would only do a 20% at most.

 

[Bloo]

Thanks again - but I feed very sparingly and my tank hygiene is top notch and I don't believe I have any trapped food anwhere. But who knows - guess I can't rule anything out entirely.

I have some no.9 and melafix - which to use?

Though have to say the smell of Melafix = enough to make ME feel ill !

 

[The-Wolf]

IMHO
whilst melafix is a good external anti bacterial
it dosn't get to the internal bacteria (as much as no9)
no9 is the strongest anti internal bacterial you can get without going to a vets.
and having used this myself for dropsy (on a fish not me ) I can say it really does
work

 

[dwarfgourami]

IMHO
whilst melafix is a good external anti bacterial
it dosn't get to the internal bacteria (as much as no9)
no9 is the strongest anti internal bacterial you can get without going to a vets.
and having used this myself for dropsy (on a fish not me ) I can say it really does
work

In the API range, it's not Melafix you want to use but the new Pimafix. Stinks the house out, but I found it effective, probably as effective as the no 9.

 

[@ombomb]

BTW a 40% water change every week is too much IMHO
I would only do a 20% at most.

I believe Bloo, like quite a few people who read the planted section, has started doing water changes of this volume after starting on EI dosing, to reset the tank parameters.

 

[Bloo]

BTW a 40% water change every week is too much IMHO
I would only do a 20% at most.

I believe Bloo, like quite a few people who read the planted section, has started doing water changes of this volume after starting on EI dosing, to reset the tank parameters.

Thanks indeed correct !

Coolio thanks Wolf - I'll give the tank a dose of no.9 then and hope for the best !

 

[millym]

hi
sorry to hear about your danios- your tale is nearly identical to what we had. when we started out we had nearly 14 danios at one time (zebra & leopard) bought from different shops & gradually all of them succumbed to dropsy & died.( over the space of a year or so) our tank was mature & we had no water quality problems at the time ( i was testing testing testing when they started getting sick) i also at the same time was using melafix now & again for a couple of minor fungal patches in an old barb. we tried everything ( internal bacteria med - interpet & esha) nothing seemed to help. all our danios seemed to start off the disease process by swimming in a slightly wobbly manner - didnt slow them down it just wasnt quite right, until they gradually progressed - often over months & months to developing dropsy, we isloated the sick ones but it didnt help them or the others in our main tank that didnt appear ill.
we love danios but like neons ( where we lost heaps to ntd) vowed to never get them again as i hate watching a little fish get ill & die/be euthanased.

interestingly i read an article in uk pfk mag last year some time from the editor & she was also having the same probs with danios as we & you also appear to be having. she concluded that maybe it was some type of virus that hadnt been recognised & that maybe danios have been 'weakened' by inbreeding etc as they are such popular little fish ( like neons)

im afraid i dont really have any advice that would help you very much.but one of our danios a little leopard female who i rescued from a pet shop in richmond( she was the last tropical fish they sold - we'd seen her swimming around by herself in december - i went back in feb & she was still there all by herself - had to do it she came home on the tube with me) anyway she developed the wobbly swimming thing i treated the tank with interpet internal bacterial med & she seemed to recover & stayed with us for another year looking very happy right up until i found her dead suddenly without showing the classic dropsy signs.
sorry i cant be of more help but its sad to hear that someone else is having the same probs we had.

 

[Bloo]

Thanks a lot for that millm - even though you can't help, it's very reassuring to know that this seems to be a fairly "common" problem. Worryingly so though
I haven't kept Danio's here in the UK (approx 8 years now) but I've enver had problems like this with them in South Africa.
I may decide not to keep them again and hope for the best with the current ones

 

[millym]

oh i forgot to say as well when we had our danios we used to turn our fluval internal filter flow up so they had quite a strong current to play in - which they did i loved watching them skip through the flow trying so hard to battle against it till being 'blown' back to the start where they'd take turns to line up for another go!!!!!!!!!( we also run an extrnal rena filstar) i know its not the same as a fast stream but it wasnt far off........
i do miss having danios & would love to try again sometime but am very wary.
good luck with your survivors!

 

[smithy05]

i have 4 danios and they behave similar to yours with swiming into the flow from filter, non of mine are ill they seem very hardy fish i only had 1 die and thats cos it got its head stuck in the hole of a plastic cave which needless to say is never seeing water again. i keep eye out for any of these problems though

are there any external symptoms i can look out for as im wanting to buy a couple more to complete the little shoal i have

 

[mikev]

Uggh, this sounds pretty bad.

Does this apply to all Danios?

(I have a seven Giants for a few months and they seem to be doing ok so far...except for growing too fast...)