Why can't I get my ammonia to go down?

[Weeg]

Hey everyone, I've been struggling with ammonia for the last few weeks in my fish tank. It hasn't gotten super high, but anything over 0 is bad. I actually lost a fish this morning which I'm blaming it on. It's just so upsetting.
Its been bouncing between 0.25, and 0.50. I removed as much water as I could, so much water to the point the Grouami's could hardly swim. I even "dug" around in the gravel with the vaccume (not sure what its really called) to remove all the gunk. I haven't been doing that because I know there is beneficail bacteria down there too, but I'm not sure what else I could be doing wrong. I've been doing a 75% water change weekly, and and still nothing.
I have a 2 gallon tank with two Gourami's, 3, but since this morning 2 Skirt Tetras, a Kahili Loach, 4 Neon Tetras, and a Cory Catfish. I was using an under member, gravel filter since it was suggested by a family member, but I recently switched to an over the tank filter after reading under gravel filters do a bad job at removing ammonia from the water. I switched about a week ago. I haven't been over feeding. Is the tank over populated? Am I experiencing new tank syndrome? Is it just going to take a bit for the new filter to establish? I've had the tank for over a year, and honestly, this is the first time I'm starting to notice any issues. I hadn't lost any fish before, and I feel like I've been loosing a lot lately. I just don't know what to do.

 

[Essjay]

I have a 2 gallon tank

I hope that's a typo with all those fish

 

[Colin_T]

How long has the tank been running for?

Are you still running the undergravel filter?
If not, then you will be starting the filter cycle over again. If you want to change filters, keep both running for a couple of months and then turn one off.

Undergravel filters are good filters if you have 2-4 inches of gravel on them, and if you use a gravel cleaner every week when you do a water change. If you don't use a gravel cleaner regularly, then the gravel becomes full of gunk that slows the water flow and the gunk encourages harmful disease organisms in the water.

--------------------
Check the tap water for ammonia.

Get a bottle of distilled water and check the ammonia level in that. It should be 0ppm. If you get an ammonia reading from distilled water, the test kit is probably faulty.

You can also take a sample of water to a pet shop and get them to test it for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Take your test kits to the shop and test the same water at the same time. Compare the results between the shop and your test kits. If you get ammonia readings and the shop doesn't, then one of the kits is faulty.

--------------------
Reduce feeding to once every couple of days. Less food means less ammonia.

 

[Weeg]

I hope that's a typo with all those fish

Oh gosh, thanks for catching that. I was typing fast, that was a typo. I meant 20 gallon.

 

[Weeg]

How long has the tank been running for?

Are you still running the undergravel filter?
If not, then you will be starting the filter cycle over again. If you want to change filters, keep both running for a couple of months and then turn one off.

Undergravel filters are good filters if you have 2-4 inches of gravel on them, and if you use a gravel cleaner every week when you do a water change. If you don't use a gravel cleaner regularly, then the gravel becomes full of gunk that slows the water flow and the gunk encourages harmful disease organisms in the water.

I purchased it with all the fish in it, gravel, etc. But it didn't have a filter, lid, or anything like that when I got it. Not sure how long it was going before I purchased it, but the tank has been running with the filter for about a year and a half?

Darn, I didn't know I needed to do that with the filters. I didn't do that. Just pulled one out and put the other in. The ammonia issues where happening before the switch, but I hoped the new filter would help. Welp, backwards affect. Darn it.

I use the vacuum every time to clean the tank. Its the most efficient way to drain the water I have found. If there are other techniques do let me know. I haven't been cleaning the gravel to thoroughly since I wasn't sure if I would be vacuuming up the beneficial bacteria. I don't have that much gravel over the top of the filter though. Shoots, well maybe that was something I should have researched better before getting rid of. That would have been an easy fix.

It was suggested to me to add Stability to the water, a beneficial bacteria water supplement. Can I add that to help establish the new filter?

How long has the tank been running for?

Are you still running the undergravel filter?
If not, then you will be starting the filter cycle over again. If you want to change filters, keep both running for a couple of months and then turn one off.

Undergravel filters are good filters if you have 2-4 inches of gravel on them, and if you use a gravel cleaner every week when you do a water change. If you don't use a gravel cleaner regularly, then the gravel becomes full of gunk that slows the water flow and the gunk encourages harmful disease organisms in the water.

--------------------
Check the tap water for ammonia.

Get a bottle of distilled water and check the ammonia level in that. It should be 0ppm. If you get an ammonia reading from distilled water, the test kit is probably faulty.

You can also take a sample of water to a pet shop and get them to test it for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Take your test kits to the shop and test the same water at the same time. Compare the results between the shop and your test kits. If you get ammonia readings and the shop doesn't, then one of the kits is faulty.

--------------------
Reduce feeding to once every couple of days. Less food means less ammonia.

Okay, I'll see if I can do that. I don't have any distilled water, but I can get some next Wednsday. Our closest store is 45 minuets away, so its not super easy to make a quick run for something I forgot.

 

[Colin_T]

If you didn't have enough gravel (ie: was only 1/2-1 inch thick instead of 2-3 inches), that might have contributed to the ammonia levels but normally after a year it should be fine even with a thin layer of gravel.

Gravel cleaners are the best way to clean gravel and remove water from the tank. They were a major turning point for fish keeping back in the 80s and people no longer had to carry the tank outside every month or so to clean it. Just gravel clean each week when you do a water change and leave the tank set up forever.

Gravel cleaning doesn't get rid of the beneficial filter bacteria. The good bacteria sticks to hard surfaces like the gravel, glass, rocks, sponges, plants and ornaments, and when you gravel clean you suck the bad gunk out leaving the clean gravel (covered in bacteria) behind.

-------------------
You don't have to do the distilled water test but it is a way to see if the test kit is working correctly. Theoretically, distilled water should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, a pH of 7.0, and 0 GH & 0 KH.

You should also rinse the test phials out under tap water after each use to remove any residual water from the tank.

-------------------
Beneficial filter bacteria supplements can definitely help and you can get them from most pet shops. I recommend adding a double dose every day for a week, then pour the remaining contents into the tank. Try to add the bacteria near the filter intake so it gets drawn into the filter where it belongs.

What sort of power filter did you get?
Did the shop tell/ show you how to clean the filter?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Just a quick additional tip to hopefully help while you ride out this cycle - I'd strongly recommend getting some Seachem Prime, and using that as your water conditioner, at least while you ride this out. Because I believe (and @Essjay , please can you clarify, or correct me if I've got this wrong) that Prime binds ammonia and nitrites for around 24 hours, so that while you still need to do large daily water changes in order to lower the levels and ride this out, the Prime will bind the levels as they begin to creep upwards in the time between water changes, keeping your fish safe from those toxins while you work to re-stabalise the beneficial bacterial colonies.

I've had to ride out a mini-cycle when some cheap root tab ferts were sending my nitrites sky high daily, despite massive twice daily water changes. I didn't use Prime at the time and I regret it, since I lost a favourite fish to nitrite poisoning even though I was working so hard to fix it. Now I always have some Prime in the cupboard, just in case!

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Gravel cleaners are the best way to clean gravel and remove water from the tank. They were a major turning point for fish keeping back in the 80s and people no longer had to carry the tank outside every month or so to clean it. Just gravel clean each week when you do a water change and leave the tank set up forever.

Wait, what?
I remember using a gravel vac as a kid, back in the 80s and early 90s, and pretty sure my folks used to sell them in their store in the 70s and perhaps earlier. Are you sure about this invented in the 80s thing? And carrying the tank outside... eh?

 

[itiwhetu]

Wait, what?
I remember using a gravel vac as a kid, back in the 80s and early 90s, and pretty sure my folks used to sell them in their store in the 70s and perhaps earlier. Are you sure about this invented in the 80s thing? And carrying the tank outside... eh?

In the seventies I hardly ever carried tanks outside. I have always used a 19mm piece of hose to siphon out tanks for water changes. I have tried other diameters but 19mm is best, I almost drowned when I tried a 25mm hose, I didn't realize how much suck you needed to get it going or how fast the water was going to flow.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

In the seventies I hardly ever carried tanks outside. I have always used a 19mm piece of hose to siphon out tanks for water changes. I have tried other diameters but 19mm is best, I almost drowned when I tried a 25mm hose, I didn't realize how much suck you needed to get it going or how fast the water was going to flow.

I can't imagine anyone picking up and carrying a tank above a 5 gallon outside on a semi-regular basis, or why they would! Even a ten gal is heavy as heck when filled with stones and water... and the poor fish!

I would have thought, that even if gravel vacs hadn't been invented yet (which I'm still struggling to believe, since a syphon is a pretty simple concept) why someone wouldn't just empty jugs into a bucket and change water that way, rather than try to lift a heavy glass box filled with water and tote it through the house.

Man, changing a 50g must have involved teams of firefighters working together! What a strange time, the 70s was...

 

[Lynnzer]

In the seventies I hardly ever carried tanks outside. I have always used a 19mm piece of hose to siphon out tanks for water changes. I have tried other diameters but 19mm is best, I almost drowned when I tried a 25mm hose, I didn't realize how much suck you needed to get it going or how fast the water was going to flow.

It's bloody disgusting to get a mouthful of dirty soiled water though, ain't it? Then if the bucket you're draining out into isn't big enough for the full job and you have to do it all again.

 

[Colin_T]

I can't imagine anyone picking up and carrying a tank above a 5 gallon outside on a semi-regular basis, or why they would! Even a ten gal is heavy as heck when filled with stones and water... and the poor fish!

The tanks were empty you silly noong.
They bucket or syphon the water out and then carry the gravel outside and hose it off. Then take the tank outside and hose it out. Bring it all back in and set it back up. It was a pain in the butt.

It might have been different in the states, but here in WA, the shops had gravel cleaners on the shelves here in the 80s but they never sold them. Most of the staff didn't even know what they were. When I started out in the shop I asked the boss what they were and she showed me. I said why aren't we using these on our tanks. We started using them in the shop and showed every customer what they did. Within a month we went from selling none in 2 years, to selling hundreds every week.

Gravel cleaners, best thing since sliced bread.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The tanks were empty you silly noong.

AHA! That makes a bit more sense...

They bucket or syphon the water out and then carry the gravel outside and hose it off. Then take the tank outside and hose it out. Bring it all back in and set it back up. It was a pain in the butt.

and if filter, tank and substrate was all getting hosed off with chlorinated tap water, resetting the cycle or at least causing a mini cycle every time! What a pain. I'd never have taken up the hobby if we still had to do that! But, people were using hosing or whatever to create a syphon by sucking on the end of it to empty tanks for a long time before the 80s though, right? Just without the bigger bell bit on the end?

It might have been different in the states, but here in WA, the shops had gravel cleaners on the shelves here in the 80s but they never sold them. Most of the staff didn't even know what they were. When I started out in the shop I asked the boss what they were and she showed me. I said why aren't we using these on our tanks. We started using them in the shop and showed every customer what they did. Within a month we went from selling none in 2 years, to selling hundreds every week.

That's amazing, really! I'd never thought to wonder when the gravel vac was created. Such a simple and essential bit of kit, had no idea that it's basically a new-fangled invention! I asked my dad about it this morning in fact, if he remembers when they came onto market, and if they sold them in their shops, but he doesn't really remember. To be fair it was a long time ago, and he just turned 85 the other day! dad!

Gravel cleaners, best thing since sliced bread.

Agreed! And when my dad first saw me starting a syphon when cleaning his tank without having to suck on the end of it, he was gobsmacked that it was such a simple way he'd never known. Parents ended up talking about the amount of tanks they'd cleaned over their time in the business, the amount of mouthfuls of tank water they'd suffered (and I've experienced that too!) when it all could have been avoided, using this one neat trick!

 

[outofwater]

I onlynremember having to syphon by mouth when I was stealing gas to sneak my friend's car out. Ahhh, the good teenage times.

 

[Essjay]

I've only ever started a siphon by sucking the tube with home made wine.
I actually use a wine siphon tube for the tank - the stiff plastic bit without the cup on the end attached to tubing. Because the tubing isn't long enough and it's narrower than aquarium siphon tubing, the end of the wine tubing is inserted into a length of aquarium siphon tubing. Since I have sand in both my tanks I don't need that wide cylinder bit for cleaning gravel. And no, I don't suck the tube to start the siphon. I curl the tubing into the sink, hold both open ends under the tap and fill it with tap water. Then at the tank, thumbs over both ends, lower one end into the bucket and the other into the tank and release. Between bucketfuls, thumb over the tank end, place the tubing in an empty bucket, open ends uppermost, so it's still full of water for the next bucketful.