Who is mauling my angelfish or is it a disease ?

[gilpi]

It’s hard to help when you don’t or won’t listen to others opinions. I’m saying that a few people think it is the pleco, but don’t believe everything. Do more research on the Bristlenose Pleco behaviors and feeding, because it seems like you are taking our information and advice blindly. That’s great that you are experimenting by taking the pleco out, but you have to understand that evidence-based (not saying @wasmewasntit is wrong) information is the best information. Majority vote goes to the Angels, which, as you said in post #52 is just adding to the evidence. “I've watched them escape each other”. You would infer that they have been aggressive to each other. It is a heavy coincidence that the dominant male in the social structure had no wounds. You are next to the tank probably 2% of the day, and just because your fish get along then doesn’t mean they don’t fight.

If I had to bet, I'd go with the angels... But... Here is the scenario, there are 5 of them (3 black 2 silver) and all 5 have wounds as per post #48, are they all taking turns on each other? I believe hexamita is more prevalent among cichlids and if so, all 5 of them have it. Now just for the sake of conversation, if it were all the angels going at it, what would you recommend anewbie do realistically? I think the OP is in a tough spot trying to do what he can with what he has, which are not too many choices. He has suspected the BN as the culprit and is going through a process of elimination.

 

[anewbie]

If I had to bet, I'd go with the angels... But... Here is the scenario, there are 5 of them (3 black 2 silver) and all 5 have wounds as per post #48, are they all taking turns on each other? I believe hexamita is more prevalent among cichlids and if so, all 5 of them have it. Now just for the sake of conversation, if it were all the angels going at it, what would you recommend anewbie do realistically? I think the OP is in a tough spot trying to do what he can with what he has, which are not too many choices. He has suspected the BN as the culprit and is going through a process of elimination.

You are correct that I'm not convince beyond doubt the pleco was causing the issue but since I wanted to get rid of him anyway it is at least something to try. What I am convince is that this damage was not caused by angel bickering. I've had angels for years - yes they will fight - yes they will damage scales but not in this fashion. Furthermore relatively speaking these 5 get along most of the time - perhaps because they were raised together as eggs or perhaps just their temperament. I have had far more aggressive angles that have constantly faught to the point of death and had marks on the side but nothing like these guys. It is hard to describe the difference in look but if you've kept angels you will know what i mean.

This damage is either from some other fish or a disease and people who haven't kept angels and insist this is from angel<->angel fighting are making a blind guess. Furthermore this tank sits next to my desk and I get to watch them quite frequenlty so i am actually aware of when they bicker, how much and where they go when they get tired of bickering and if they are pursued if they get tired. What I can tell you is one of the black - the one bounded with the female gold - is a bit more aggressive but normally it is just display without physical contact. Oddly he is the one that usually gets tired and goes off to 'pout' for a bit.

So if this damage is caused by a fish which fish. If this is a disease how would you treat it without removal of the fishes? Why don't i remove them to a qt tank? Because I do not have a spare tank large enough for these guys and given my living situation i have no options in that department. I do treat other fishes in a 5 gallon pail but these guys are very large - they borderline on being too large for a 29 so that leaves their current aquarium for treatments.

Thank you.

 

[enricosonic]

This damage is either from some other fish or a disease and people who haven't kept angels and insist this is from angel<->angel fighting are making a blind guess. Furthermore this tank sits next to my desk and I get to watch them quite frequenlty so i am actually aware of when they bicker, how much and where they go when they get tired of bickering and if they are pursued if they get tired. What I can tell you is one of the black - the one bounded with the female gold - is a bit more aggressive but normally it is just display without physical contact.

It's never helpful to be defensive in the face of problem solving. We're all making a relatively "blind guess" - including you. You came here to ask what is happening and posted pics of chunks of scales removed on your fishes, (in a species that is commonly kept), yet no one has seen this before nor has a definitive answer.

You're frustrated, I sure as hell would be, but everyone who's posted is legitimately trying to help you, not make you wrong.

 

[anewbie]

It's never helpful to be defensive in the face of problem solving. We're all making a relatively "blind guess" - including you. You came here to ask what is happening and posted pics of chunks of scales removed on your fishes, (in a species that is commonly kept), yet no one has seen this before nor has a definitive answer.

You're frustrated, I sure as hell would be, but everyone who's posted is legitimately trying to help you, not make you wrong.

For better or worse I was able to find another angle keeper who has had this problem in the past. In his specific case it was a bn pleco.

 

[gilpi]

For better or worse I was able to find another angle keeper who has had this problem in the past. In his specific case it was a bn pleco.

Hey I hope you narrowed down the problem. Not sure how long it’ll take for the injuries to heal but please keep us posted!

 

[anewbie]

Hey I hope you narrowed down the problem. Not sure how long it’ll take for the injuries to heal but please keep us posted!

I will but it will likely take several months to tell for sure.

 

[gilpi]

I'm just following up on this... any improvement with the angels?

 

[anewbie]

No change but only been a week; remind me in 2 months.

 

[anewbie]

A couple of the angels ended up dying but the ones remaining have not seen new attacks in nearly 2 months.

 

[anewbie]

Well not only did the mauling stop when i removed that bn pleco but now after nearly 3 full months the angel has finally fully healed. So i guess that answers the question.... it was very likely a bn pleco causing the damage

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Edited: Sorry I did not read it all before i posted but here is what I did post. It seems it was the pleco.


I concur with wasmewasntit. Plecos have been known to become slime suckers. Do any of the other angels show this sort of damage? You can try one of two things.

One is to remove the fish toa iso;lation tank. However, if the pleco is to blame it may look for another target. But that would confirm it is likely the bn. Or you could isolate the bn and see how the affected fish does. it should start to heal up and there should be no new marks either.

However, I also would not eliminate the yoyo. Years back I had YoYos and then got DD black angels, the yoyos would harass the angels. They would swim along side the angel and mouth it's gill plate. I never saw any damage like in the pic. I liked the yoyos but loved the angels so I got rid of the loaches. Had I not done so who knows how things would have progressed.

 

[anewbie]

I concur with wasmewasntit. Plecos have been known to become slime suckers. Do any of the other angels show this sort of damage? You can try one of two things.

One is to remove the fish toa iso;lation tank. However, if the pleco is to blame it may look for another target. But that would confirm it is likely the bn. Or you could isolate the bn and see how the affected fish does. it should start to heal up and there should be no new marks either.

However, I also would not eliminate the yoyo. Years back I had YoYos and then got DD black angels, the yoyos would harass the angels. They would swim along side the angel and mouth it's gill plate. I never saw any damage like in the pic. I liked the yoyos but loved the angels so I got rid of the loaches. Had I not done so who knows how things would have progressed.

Not sure if you read the entire thread; the bn was removed and that prevented new damage and over time the wounds healed. 3 of the angels had large amount of wounds and 2 had one or two spots. The golds were mostly spared and all the blacks were mauled. The tank had a number of plecos mostly bn and L204; i removed a particularly large male bn which solved the issue. The yoyo seem ok - they are large but they hang out with the zebra and clowns. I've not seen any attacks to any fishes now for a while so I think things are stable.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I feel that more than likely the Angels are having a go at each other. Your tank is set up in such a way that they cannot escape from one another.
I would reduce the amount of plants so that the Angels can swim amongst them and find some refuge.

Wow! I think this is the first time I've seen you recommend the removal of plants! Usually you're the one pushing for more plants in a tank
I understand why the difference though - only teasing!

So if this damage is caused by a fish which fish. If this is a disease how would you treat it without removal of the fishes? Why don't i remove them to a qt tank? Because I do not have a spare tank large enough for these guys and given my living situation i have no options in that department. I do treat other fishes in a 5 gallon pail but these guys are very large - they borderline on being too large for a 29 so that leaves their current aquarium for treatments.

Really glad you figured out the issue and managed to catch the bristlenose, wow, the damage he managed to do! This was a really educational thread, thank you for posting and updating it. Sorry about the angels you lost though.

For any future issues, might be worth considering using a food grade large plastic tote as a temporary quarantine tank for if you need to isolate a large fish. Some can hold 50g or more, just reinforce them a bit by tying rope around them and across the top to hold it steady. Add a heater in a heater guard sitting on some stones or something and a sponge filter, some plant trimmings you don't mind losing, and you're set. Then you're not setting up a second large tank, landlord need never know, but you can isolate and treat a fish in that tote for however long you need to. Just thought it might be useful to think about for any future troubles. But glad you resolved your problem!

 

[anewbie]

Wow! I think this is the first time I've seen you recommend the removal of plants! Usually you're the one pushing for more plants in a tank
I understand why the difference though - only teasing!


Really glad you figured out the issue and managed to catch the bristlenose, wow, the damage he managed to do! This was a really educational thread, thank you for posting and updating it. Sorry about the angels you lost though.

For any future issues, might be worth considering using a food grade large plastic tote as a temporary quarantine tank for if you need to isolate a large fish. Some can hold 50g or more, just reinforce them a bit by tying rope around them and across the top to hold it steady. Add a heater in a heater guard sitting on some stones or something and a sponge filter, some plant trimmings you don't mind losing, and you're set. Then you're not setting up a second large tank, landlord need never know, but you can isolate and treat a fish in that tote for however long you need to. Just thought it might be useful to think about for any future troubles. But glad you resolved your problem!

If I could use a 50 gallon tote, I could use a 50 gallon aquarium. The HOA has a limit on how much weight i can put in the condo. I.e., no more aquariums allowed (a 50 gallon tote is just a non-clear 50 gallon aquarium).

 

[itiwhetu]

Wow! I think this is the first time I've seen you recommend the removal of plants! Usually you're the one pushing for more plants in a tank
I understand why the difference though - only teasing!


Really glad you figured out the issue and managed to catch the bristlenose, wow, the damage he managed to do! This was a really educational thread, thank you for posting and updating it. Sorry about the angels you lost though.

For any future issues, might be worth considering using a food grade large plastic tote as a temporary quarantine tank for if you need to isolate a large fish. Some can hold 50g or more, just reinforce them a bit by tying rope around them and across the top to hold it steady. Add a heater in a heater guard sitting on some stones or something and a sponge filter, some plant trimmings you don't mind losing, and you're set. Then you're not setting up a second large tank, landlord need never know, but you can isolate and treat a fish in that tote for however long you need to. Just thought it might be useful to think about for any future troubles. But glad you resolved your problem!

I'm a man of many replies and different answers for different situations.