Which substrate and how much!

[Essjay]

I would drain that right down then refill.
When I topped up the sand in my main tank it went cloudy like that. I keep a small cheap internal filter in the cupboard which I use if I ever need to run carbon temporarily so I used that filled with filter wool/floss and it was almost clear next day. Another day with a new batch of filter wool and it was clear.

 

[Playsander]

Drain, refill, drain, refill and so on. It will clear eventually.

 

[Byron]

When you have finished any "landscaping" that disturbs the sand, meaning the hardscape and substrate-rooted plants, then drain the tank to the sand. Place a large bowl on the sand and run the fresh water into the bowl. The water will slowly and gently over-run the bowl and stir up far less sand. The water will then clear, perhaps in hours, sometimes a few days. It is as much a bacterial issue as sediment from the sand, but this method at least reduces the latter.

 

[Laurabhspt]

Drain, refill, drain, refill and so on. It will clear eventually.

Wow, it’s a 400l tank, this sounds like such an epic waste of water…

Any recommendations for a quicker way of draining if this has to be done? I’m about 2m from a window so guessing a decent length of hose could drain straight out the window?

 

[Laurabhspt]

I would drain that right down then refill.
When I topped up the sand in my main tank it went cloudy like that. I keep a small cheap internal filter in the cupboard which I use if I ever need to run carbon temporarily so I used that filled with filter wool/floss and it was almost clear next day. Another day with a new batch of filter wool and it was clear.

I have a spar cheap filter, it’s a sponge filter, if I filled that with filter floss do you think that would help? Draining this off sounds like it’s such a waste of water and money these days too..

 

[Essjay]

If the particles causing the cloudiness are largish (eg from the substrate) it would help to reduce it. Though if it's a bacterial bloom it won't as the bacteria are too small to be trapped.
When I topped up my sand, the filter floss was brown next day so in my case it was probably sand debris.

 

[Laurabhspt]

If the particles causing the cloudiness are largish (eg from the substrate) it would help to reduce it. Though if it's a bacterial bloom it won't as the bacteria are too small to be trapped.
When I topped up my sand, the filter floss was brown next day so in my case it was probably sand debris.

Thankyou. Could this be bacteria then? When it’s newly washed sand and fresh water? I just thought it was dust and that I hadn’t washed it well enough (even though looking down through it it was quite clear - I really thought I had done a good job ) so I drained most of that first photo off (added it for ref again) and refilled, this time taking care to pour the water over the large bit of wood at the back to minimise disturbance…. I think it does look clearer, I’ve also added the cheap internal filter filled with floss as a potential help. If I put my external filter on and added a few of the fish would this help or make it worse? Or even worse kill my fish? Also, I have some prime if it’s bacteria would this help? Or would I be wasting it if I need to drain again? Who knew this fish keeping would be so hard

 

[Byron]

Thankyou. Could this be bacteria then? When it’s newly washed sand and fresh water? I just thought it was dust and that I hadn’t washed it well enough (even though looking down through it it was quite clear - I really thought I had done a good job )

It is most likely both. Getting all the "dust" rinsed out of sand is impossible unless you take hours. But it is harmless and will settle out. All new-filled tanks will have a bacterial bloom because of the dissolved organics in the source (tap) water. These are microscopic, but you would be surprised at the level of dissolved organic matter can be in most tap water. The bacteria that eat all organics can reproduce within 20 minutes, so they can very rapidly cloud the tank. This too is harmless and usually settles out within a few hours sometimes to several days. Water changes do not help with bacterial blooms because the dissolved organics come in with the fresh water again.

 

[Laurabhspt]

I guess what I’m asking is if it’s a bacteria bloom and I add my established filter and a couple fish would the beneficial bacteria help?

 

[Laurabhspt]

It is most likely both. Getting all the "dust" rinsed out of sand is impossible unless you take hours. But it is harmless and will settle out. All new-filled tanks will have a bacterial bloom because of the dissolved organics in the source (tap) water. These are microscopic, but you would be surprised at the level of dissolved organic matter can be in most tap water. The bacteria that eat all organics can reproduce within 20 minutes, so they can very rapidly cloud the tank. This too is harmless and usually settles out within a few hours sometimes to several days. Water changes do not help with bacterial blooms because the dissolved organics come in with the fresh water again.

Ooooh ok, so if I move the filters / ornaments over and some fish could this help? As I will be putting the good bacteria in?

 

[Byron]

There are many different species of bacteria in an aquarium. The nitrifiers are one group that deal with ammonia and nitrite. There are other bacteria and some of these are the waste-eating bacteria that use organic matter whether dissolved or solid. Some use nitrate. The nitrifiers so far as I know have no impact on the others, though it is possible for the waste-eating bacteria to reproduce so rapidly (if food is available) that they can overwhelm and basically suffocate the nitrifiers. Nitrifiers need oxygen, but the waste-eating bacteria are primarily anaerobes that can use oxygen or continue with no oxygen, which gives them another advantage. This is why you want to keep the filter especially very clean. All that brown gunk is organics. Normally things stay relatively balanced...especially with live plants and particularly fast-growers like the floating species. These have an incredible appetite for ammonia/ammonium, and they consume all they can find continuously, day and night.

 

[Laurabhspt]

There are many different species of bacteria in an aquarium. The nitrifiers are one group that deal with ammonia and nitrite. There are other bacteria and some of these are the waste-eating bacteria that use organic matter whether dissolved or solid. Some use nitrate. The nitrifiers so far as I know have no impact on the others, though it is possible for the waste-eating bacteria to reproduce so rapidly (if food is available) that they can overwhelm and basically suffocate the nitrifiers. Nitrifiers need oxygen, but the waste-eating bacteria are primarily anaerobes that can use oxygen or continue with no oxygen, which gives them another advantage. This is why you want to keep the filter especially very clean. All that brown gunk is organics. Normally things stay relatively balanced...especially with live plants and particularly fast-growers like the floating species. These have an incredible appetite for ammonia/ammonium, and they consume all they can find continuously, day and night.

Thankyou Byron, I’ve been reading a few of your other comments on some cloudy water feeds, very helpful. So if this bacteria is not harmful to the fish, can I add my tap safe and move the filters/fish and ornaments over? Or if these bacteria feed on organically will the fish just add to the problem? Also if I get a few air stones running to add more oxygen would that benefit in your experience? I think part of the problem was definitely particulate matter as the filter floss is already brown

 

[Byron]

Thankyou Byron, I’ve been reading a few of your other comments on some cloudy water feeds, very helpful. So if this bacteria is not harmful to the fish, can I add my tap safe and move the filters/fish and ornaments over? Or if these bacteria feed on organically will the fish just add to the problem? Also if I get a few air stones running to add more oxygen would that benefit in your experience? I think part of the problem was definitely particulate matter as the filter floss is already brown

This is from my article some time back for another site. You need some definitions to follow this, so I will add these too.

Bacterial blooms

These are most common in new tanks. Established tanks rarely have them, except when the balance is disturbed [explained below]. Heterotrophs appear sooner and faster. They build many of the biofilms that all bacteria use to adhere to surfaces, and they reproduce much faster, around 15 to 60 minutes, compared to hours for the autotrophs. So if heterotrophs cause the bacterial bloom in a new tank, and yet there is very little if any obvious organic waste, how? Well, when water is dechlorinated, it can suddenly support bacteria, and the "organic waste" in the water itself feeds the heterotroph bacteria and it very rapidly reproduces and clouds the tank milky white. This will occur in fishless cycling with just ammonia. It is usually less likely, or will be minimal by comparison, with live plants because they assimilate nutrients from organics.

As was previously mentioned, heterotrophs are facultative anaerobes—unlike autotrophs which need oxygen—so they can switch between aerobic and anaerobic depending upon the environment. This is why they can kill so many nitrifying bacteria in filters when the filter is allowed to get clogged. When heterotrophs bloom in the water they switch to being aerobic and consume vast amounts of oxygen. This is the real danger of a bacteria bloom, as it can starve the fish of oxygen. Increasing aeration may be advisable.

In an established tank, a bacterial bloom is caused by something that upsets the biological balance by increasing the organic matter too quickly, such as overfeeding, excessive decaying plant and animal matter, excess waste from overcrowding, etc. Here, the heterotrophs quickly reproduce by feeding on this organic matter. This produces ammonia as a by-product, and the sudden surge in ammonia overtakes the nitrifying bacteria that need time to "catch up." Live plants again help here, as they can assimilate and/or take up considerable quantities of ammonia faster. Note that the bacterial bloom causes the rise in ammonia, not the opposite as some may think.

A water change is not recommended to clear a bacterial bloom. When the free-floating heterotrophs are removed, the others will reproduce even faster to compensate, thus worsening the bloom. If left alone, they usually dissipate in a few days. In an established tank, however, the source of the problem should be removed. Clean the gravel, remove decaying matter, don’t overfeed, reduce overstocking, etc. And be aware of the oxygen shortage issue.

Heterotrophic bacteria cannot synthesize their own food so they need organic material such as fish waste, dead bacteria, fish and plant matter, etc., and while some are aerobic, many are facultative anaerobes, meaning that they can survive in either the presence or absence of free oxygen. Anaerobes are organisms that do not require free oxygen for growth. This has significant consequences in aquaria.

 

[Laurabhspt]

This is from my article some time back for another site. You need some definitions to follow this, so I will add these too.

Bacterial blooms

These are most common in new tanks. Established tanks rarely have them, except when the balance is disturbed [explained below]. Heterotrophs appear sooner and faster. They build many of the biofilms that all bacteria use to adhere to surfaces, and they reproduce much faster, around 15 to 60 minutes, compared to hours for the autotrophs. So if heterotrophs cause the bacterial bloom in a new tank, and yet there is very little if any obvious organic waste, how? Well, when water is dechlorinated, it can suddenly support bacteria, and the "organic waste" in the water itself feeds the heterotroph bacteria and it very rapidly reproduces and clouds the tank milky white. This will occur in fishless cycling with just ammonia. It is usually less likely, or will be minimal by comparison, with live plants because they assimilate nutrients from organics.

As was previously mentioned, heterotrophs are facultative anaerobes—unlike autotrophs which need oxygen—so they can switch between aerobic and anaerobic depending upon the environment. This is why they can kill so many nitrifying bacteria in filters when the filter is allowed to get clogged. When heterotrophs bloom in the water they switch to being aerobic and consume vast amounts of oxygen. This is the real danger of a bacteria bloom, as it can starve the fish of oxygen. Increasing aeration may be advisable.

In an established tank, a bacterial bloom is caused by something that upsets the biological balance by increasing the organic matter too quickly, such as overfeeding, excessive decaying plant and animal matter, excess waste from overcrowding, etc. Here, the heterotrophs quickly reproduce by feeding on this organic matter. This produces ammonia as a by-product, and the sudden surge in ammonia overtakes the nitrifying bacteria that need time to "catch up." Live plants again help here, as they can assimilate and/or take up considerable quantities of ammonia faster. Note that the bacterial bloom causes the rise in ammonia, not the opposite as some may think.

A water change is not recommended to clear a bacterial bloom. When the free-floating heterotrophs are removed, the others will reproduce even faster to compensate, thus worsening the bloom. If left alone, they usually dissipate in a few days. In an established tank, however, the source of the problem should be removed. Clean the gravel, remove decaying matter, don’t overfeed, reduce overstocking, etc. And be aware of the oxygen shortage issue.

Heterotrophic bacteria cannot synthesize their own food so they need organic material such as fish waste, dead bacteria, fish and plant matter, etc., and while some are aerobic, many are facultative anaerobes, meaning that they can survive in either the presence or absence of free oxygen. Anaerobes are organisms that do not require free oxygen for growth. This has significant consequences in aquaria.

Thankyou - I haven’t dechlorinated this yet so probably not the first type?

 

[Byron]

Thankyou - I haven’t dechlorinated this yet so probably not the first type?

I've no idea how much chlorine you have in your water, but being in the UK I suspect it is so minimal it is not even an issue. In North America, some areas heavily chlorinat the water to the point you can smell the chlorine every time the tap is turned on. From discussions with UK members a while back, this does not seem to be the case there. And, we have scientific studies showing that even at the maximum chlorine level allowed by law in the US, more than half of the bacteria did not die but easily survived. So, I would not worry much about chlorine doing anything but burning fish gills.