Where To Start?

[Deleted member 55926]

Hi everyone,

I have just bought my first flat, and being the animal-lover I am (and not able to keep cats here!), I have decided to set up a nice aquarium. Now I knew it would be slightly more complex than 'buy tank / fill with water / add fish' but I have quickly become lost in pages and pages of research and how-to guides. However, this seems like the best forum I have come across (loads of helpful threads, thanks) so I thought I'd just pitch my ideas and see if you guys can give me a little one-to-one advice for my particular situation.

What I Would Like

• Tank no bigger than 100L.
• Tropical.
• Would prefer numbers over size of fish.
• At least one shoal, with a couple of larger individuals maybe.
• A couple of invertebrates (e.g. shrimp, snails).

Tank

I do not have space for a large tank, but I am interested in taking this as seriously as space permits. I have a low cabinet about 2' high, that would make a perfect base for a tank with surface area up to about 80cm x 40cm. With this in mind, I am thinking of tanks that are 60L- 100L. Initially, I thought 60L would be fine, but I keep reading that slightly larger tanks are much better, and I have seen that you can't actually get many fish in 60L.

I was thinking of a Juwel Rekord 80 or 96, as they seem to be a good starting point, and affordable (http/www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rekord.htm?cat=521). Are Juwel tanks OK? They seem to be quite popular around the Internet.

Fish

1. Is 80L a decent starting size, and is it realistic for me to keep, say, a group of 5-6 neons or cardinals, 2 or 3 fish that are maybe 3" max, and a couple of 1" shrimp?
2. Do small shrimp or snails count as far as tank space is concerned?
3. What are the benefits, if any, of keeping shrimp/snails?

Landscaping

1. What is the difference between using sand or gravel? Which is easier to sustain the small fish I am interested in?
2. What level of density of plant/rock cover should I use? I really like busy aquariums with lots of plants and places to hide.
3. How much gravel is needed for an 80L tank, in terms of height from the bottom, and weight?
4. How much volume does gravel and rocks take up, as this may influence my decision to go for the 96L.
5. What are the benefits/drawbacks of using real plants? Is there anything wrong with using fake plants if they are aesthetically pleasing?

I have a million more questions, but I will leave it at that for now. I am having a real hard time simply choosing a tank to begin with!

Thanks.

 

[anwhyte]

Hi everyone,

I have just bought my first flat, and being the animal-lover I am (and not able to keep cats here!), I have decided to set up a nice aquarium. Now I knew it would be slightly more complex than 'buy tank / fill with water / add fish' but I have quickly become lost in pages and pages of research and how-to guides. However, this seems like the best forum I have come across (loads of helpful threads, thanks) so I thought I'd just pitch my ideas and see if you guys can give me a little one-to-one advice for my particular situation.

What I Would Like

• Tank no bigger than 100L.
• Tropical.
• Would prefer numbers over size of fish.
• At least one shoal, with a couple of larger individuals maybe.
• A couple of invertebrates (e.g. shrimp, snails).

Tank

I do not have space for a large tank, but I am interested in taking this as seriously as space permits. I have a low cabinet about 2' high, that would make a perfect base for a tank with surface area up to about 80cm x 40cm. With this in mind, I am thinking of tanks that are 60L- 100L. Initially, I thought 60L would be fine, but I keep reading that slightly larger tanks are much better, and I have seen that you can't actually get many fish in 60L.

I was thinking of a Juwel Rekord 80 or 96, as they seem to be a good starting point, and affordable (http/www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rekord.htm?cat=521). Are Juwel tanks OK? They seem to be quite popular around the Internet.

Fish

1. Is 80L a decent starting size, and is it realistic for me to keep, say, a group of 5-6 neons or cardinals, 2 or 3 fish that are maybe 3" max, and a couple of 1" shrimp?
2. Do small shrimp or snails count as far as tank space is concerned?
3. What are the benefits, if any, of keeping shrimp/snails?

Landscaping

1. What is the difference between using sand or gravel? Which is easier to sustain the small fish I am interested in?
2. How much gravel is needed for an 80L tank, in terms of height from the bottom, and weight?
3. How much volume does gravel take up, as this may influence my decision to go for the 96L.
4. What are the benefits/drawbacks of using real plants? Is there anything wrong with using fake plants if they are aesthetically pleasing?

I have a million more questions, but I will leave it at that for now. I am having a real hard time simply choosing a tank to begin with!
Thanks.

hi, i have a jewel rekord tank, it's very good, easy maintenance, quite attractive as well. I have (silver) sand in it, about 4kg, just my preference, i think it looks nicer than gravel.in a tank that size you could easily keep a shoal of neons/cardinals a few shrimp & a couple of larger fish ( i have kribensis in mine), shrimp & snails will eat algae but that doesn't mean you can leave all the cleaning to them. I have real plants, silk plants look quite realistic, but in my opinion real ones are best, as long as they get some real or artificial light for a few hours a day.

 

[Mr Bliss]

Fish:

1. It's a decent starting size, although I'd go for the 96 litre one if I were you. The bigger the tank, the more stable and easier to maintain it is. The stocking plan seems reasonable (you'd have room for a few more neons there in fact). If you keep only small fish and fine leaved plants, the tank will look larger, so you might consider skipping the 3 inch fish altogether to have room for a greater number of individual fish. There are non-schooling fish that both stay small and have impressive looks, the sparkling gourami for example.

2. Basically yes, but to a much lesser degree. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about inverts can answer this one in more detail.

3. Shrimp and snails act as a "cleanup crew". They'll eat any leftover fish food, dead plant parts, algae etc. Baby snails and shrimp can be a welcome snack to fish.

Landscaping:

1. The difference between sand and gravel is mostly aesthetic. Sand can be trickier to keep clean.

2. Use as much rock and bogwood as you like! If you want really dense plant growth, check out the Planted Tank subforum for ideas and guidelines, as heavily planted tanks are a world of their own.

3 & 4. With live plants, go for at least 2 inches of substrate. Otherwise it doesn't matter. Regarding rocks and other hardscape, people generally aren't concerned with the associated reduction in water volume (in terms of stocking capacity). The reduced volume is probably compensated for by the increased surface area of beneficial bacteria in the tank.

5. Nothing wrong with fake plants. Live plants help keep the water clean, as they derive nutrients from fish waste, but good filtration and water changes can do this just fine without any plants. Seeing living plants grow and propagate adds an interesting aspect to aquarium keeping, if you're interested in that kind of thing.

 

[lizandel]

Hi, I am new also so no real advise but I found this link (posted somewhere else on this site I think) and it seems really good for fish numbers if you put your tank details in. It also gives warnings if you choose fish that won't be compatible.

http/aqadvisor.com/AqAdvisor.php?

 

[Deleted member 55926]

Thanks for the replies. I am feeling very reassured. I hope some other people will give more advice if they can!

One immediate issue I have is that I can't actually find anywhere that sells Juwel Rekord 80 or 96. From what I gather, they have been replaced by the 600 and 800, but both are slightly outside of the size I am after. Does anybody know if the older models are still being produced or sold new by retailers? I am based in London, UK.

Otherwise, I may just have to go for the 110L Juwel Rekord 800. I'm sure it would be OK on the cabinet I have, but I will have to insert a piece of wood in the center of the inside, just to ensure it is properly supported.

 

[aly_starh]

Hi everyone,

I have just bought my first flat, and being the animal-lover I am (and not able to keep cats here!), I have decided to set up a nice aquarium. Now I knew it would be slightly more complex than 'buy tank / fill with water / add fish' but I have quickly become lost in pages and pages of research and how-to guides. However, this seems like the best forum I have come across (loads of helpful threads, thanks) so I thought I'd just pitch my ideas and see if you guys can give me a little one-to-one advice for my particular situation.

What I Would Like

• Tank no bigger than 100L.
• Tropical.
• Would prefer numbers over size of fish.
• At least one shoal, with a couple of larger individuals maybe.
• A couple of invertebrates (e.g. shrimp, snails).

Tank

I do not have space for a large tank, but I am interested in taking this as seriously as space permits. I have a low cabinet about 2' high, that would make a perfect base for a tank with surface area up to about 80cm x 40cm. With this in mind, I am thinking of tanks that are 60L- 100L. Initially, I thought 60L would be fine, but I keep reading that slightly larger tanks are much better, and I have seen that you can't actually get many fish in 60L.
I have a 65l Community tank and a 65l Betta tank, Fish in my profile. Good selection

I was thinking of a Juwel Rekord 80 or 96, as they seem to be a good starting point, and affordable (http/www.juwel-aquarium.de/en/rekord.htm?cat=521). Are Juwel tanks OK? They seem to be quite popular around the Internet.
Yes Fab!

Fish

1. Is 80L a decent starting size, and is it realistic for me to keep, say, a group of 5-6 neons or cardinals, 2 or 3 fish that are maybe 3" max, and a couple of 1" shrimp? You could have 10 Neons or Cardinals, corys, cherry shrimp
2. Do small shrimp or snails count as far as tank space is concerned? Not really, shrimp dont produce much waste, where as snails do
3. What are the benefits, if any, of keeping shrimp/snails? Shrimp eat left over food, snail eat left over food, clean some algea and produce too much

Landscaping

1. What is the difference between using sand or gravel? Which is easier to sustain the small fish I am interested in? Sand, kinder to fish's barbels/ gravel(dark) shows fishes colours more, easier to clean. I have sand.
2. What level of density of plant/rock cover should I use? I really like busy aquariums with lots of plants and places to hide. 2" Substrate, with loads of plants
3. How much gravel is needed for an 80L tank, in terms of height from the bottom, and weight? 2-2 1/2", weight 15kg approx.
4. How much volume does gravel and rocks take up, as this may influence my decision to go for the 96L. a few litres
5. What are the benefits/drawbacks of using real plants? Is there anything wrong with using fake plants if they are aesthetically pleasing? Plastic is not kind on long finned fish,(looks tacky) silk is ok, but live are the best. They introduce alot oxygen into tank, and also dead leaves are food for some snail & shrimp. helps with Nitrates

I have a million more questions, but I will leave it at that for now. I am having a real hard time simply choosing a tank to begin with!

Thanks.

Anymore questions? We will be happy to answer the

Thanks for the replies. I am feeling very reassured. I hope some other people will give more advice if they can!

One immediate issue I have is that I can't actually find anywhere that sells Juwel Rekord 80 or 96. From what I gather, they have been replaced by the 600 and 800, but both are slightly outside of the size I am after. Does anybody know if the older models are still being produced or sold new by retailers? I am based in London, UK.

Otherwise, I may just have to go for the 110L Juwel Rekord 800. I'm sure it would be OK on the cabinet I have, but I will have to insert a piece of wood in the center of the inside, just to ensure it is properly supported.

Try Ebay, bargain also. I have the 2 Juwel Rekord 600's

 

[Tolak]

Since you have been given such good advice already I would just like to say welcome to TFF! Enjoy yourself here, there's plenty of good people with good advice!

 

[K-Holed]

A par of Apistgramma would look lovely in the tank

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Mig.
A tank that is about the size you are looking for is a standard 29 gallon tank in the US. It is 30 inches, 76cm, long and only about 13 inches, 33cm, from front to back. At 29 gallons nominal it might be called something like 100 to 110 litres in the UK. It is a rather tall tank but big enough to provide a home for at least 2 small schools of colorful fish like neons or rasboras along with a half dozen cories for the bottom area of the tank and a pair of a reasonably larger fish like the rams or apistogrammas already suggested. If you decided to get serious about fish and do not want to add to your small space available, many tank stands are made that will accommodate two similarly sized tanks above each other. It is how I have made room for the sheer number of tanks that I have in my home.

One of my home made stands

As far as snails, the typical mystery snail, a diffusa, is treated as using about 7 litres of water by breeders, so they do occupy a lot of water space that might be used for fish. On the other hand the mystery snails will not breed totally out of control like pond snails or ramshorns.

A tank about the size we are considering is going to need at least 10Kg of gravel and maybe even 15 to 20 if you want a nice deep bed on the tank bottom. I personally love live plants in my tanks and hate all the care that high tech planted tanks need. That means that I have lots of "low light" plants in my tanks that must live with the lights I got with my tanks and no fertilizers added. I have a few higher light tanks because there is no getting around the fact that variety makes the hobby more interesting.

 

[discus_lover]

nice set up of the aquarium...

 

[waterdrop]

Welcome to TFF from me too Mig! The members here are great and its just a great place to spend time learning.

I think you are very smart to spend some time thinking about tank size and the actual tank, despite it giving you the feeling of things being slow. The whole hobby is about slowing down and the equipment choosing part is interesting and fun and so a good thing to enjoy too.

I'd not exclude the 100 to 110L range as that can put you in to the 28, 29, 30 US gallon "sweet spot" where there are a lot of nice shapes and sizes such as the one OM47 described above.

That size and the fish interests you are expressing already could mean that a shoal of rasbora heteromorpha and another shoal of neon/cards or glowlights or head&taillights or penguins or scissors or any of a lot of other shoaling tetras may be among the stocking possibilities you will explore, along with corys and a couple larger fish.

One way to organize the rush of info would be as follows: After you settle in on tank size (or as you continue to think about it,) begin to think about and research filters. Filters are at the core of the hobby and being willing to purchase a good one can be a big help both early on and in the long run. As you do that you won't be able to help but also research the filtration media that go in them, that's important too. Although you can do ok sometimes without this research, its ideal to do some of this learning and making of good choices just prior to starting your fishless cycle.

Then, with the tank, lid, heater, filter and liquid test kit in hand, its time to proceed with the fishless cycle, as it might take as much as 2 months and that's the period when you can learn about the nitrogen cycle in detail and be working on your stocking plan.

Anyway, good luck and hope to see you around the beginners section! ~~waterdrop~~

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

What are the benefits/drawbacks of using real plants? Is there anything wrong with using fake plants if they are aesthetically pleasing?

Benefit of both: Plants look great, and can provide natural line of sight breaks/hiding places for fish which can bring out more natural behaviors.

Real Plants:
Benefits:
- Lots of healthy live plants will indeed help remove nitrates from the water.
- Create an ever changing landscape for your tank.
- Produce extra oxygen (although they will use oxygen at night)
- Healthy plants fight algae

Cons:
- Unhealthy live plants can actually add waste chemicals to the water if they begin to die, and can potentially start doing so before the plant looks sickly. Generally this isn't going to cause your fish harm, but the excess ammonia could lead to small algae blooms.
- Can make re-arranging the tank / gravel vaccing more difficult.
- May need to spend a bit more on hood lighting/filtration/substrate if you want a lot of plants. Research low-tech or "natural" methods. Too much light, and too little circulation, and you'll be asking for trouble!
- Requires extra research since there are many plants sold as "aquatic" by pet stores that will die if submerged.

Fake Plants:
Benefits:
- No research, special effort, equipment required for a wide variety of "plants" in all types of shapes/sizes.
- Can't die, and can be easily moved around or replaced whenever you'd like

Cons:
- May trap debris
- Can be a pain to clean if algae collects on them

If you just want a few simple live plants with minimal needs... Anubias, Java Fern, and Java Moss are all very easy plants that require minimal light, and there is no reason that you can't mix them with fakes. I did for a long time. Just don't expect a few slow growing plants to make much difference in your water quality.

 

[Deleted member 55926]

OK guys, following your advice and much thought, I think I have come to some conclusions.

1. I will go for one of Juwel's new Rekord range, so I will get the Rekord 800 (110L / 29 US gal). I am certain it will be worth it
   Juwel Rekord 800
   
   
2. The cabinet I have is pretty minimal in terms of structure - literally 3 walls and a pair of small doors at the front - so I will get some wood and build a frame within to ensure it is strong enough.
   
   
3. I will stick with fake plants for now. I have to say that planted tanks look amazing, but I just don't think I will be able to cope with learning the fishkeeping and plant keeping at the same time. It looks like a lot of work and an extra dimension of commitment.

Now I have a couple of immediate questions about additional equipment, following my decision to get the tank.

• Is the heater integrated with the filter, or is the heater an independent unit that can be placed as necessary? I know the filter sits in the back right corner.
  
  
• The internal filter that it comes with is 400L/h. I am slightly concerned this isn't particularly powerful. Following a recommendation in another thread, I am considering replacing it with a Fluval 3 Plus, which is 700L/h. Is this worth doing? Will it be noisier and/or too powerful? Can a filter be too powerful?
  
  
• If I replace the filter, going back to the first question, will I need to then buy a new heater unit?

 

[arobinson1984]

Now I have a couple of immediate questions about additional equipment, following my decision to get the tank.

• Is the heater integrated with the filter, or is the heater an independent unit that can be placed as necessary? I know the filter sits in the back right corner.
  
  
• The internal filter that it comes with is 400L/h. I am slightly concerned this isn't particularly powerful. Following a recommendation in another thread, I am considering replacing it with a Fluval 3 Plus, which is 700L/h. Is this worth doing? Will it be noisier and/or too powerful? Can a filter be too powerful?
  
  
• If I replace the filter, going back to the first question, will I need to then buy a new heater unit?

Firstly, the heater that comes with the tank is a seperate heater, it just sits inside the filter box in the far corner, it can be taken out and used elsewhere in the tank if you prefer, its just designed like that from a space saving point of view.

Secondly, the fluval 3+ or even 4+ would be ideal internal filter, are fairly cheap and both are silent. You wont go far wreong with a fluval internal filter, they are one of the best brands for internals you can buy. Filters can get too powerful, but only when you get to the extreme, for example a filter for a 200 gal tank on a 10 gal tank. In general, the more filtration the better, it gives you more stocking options.

Alternatively, you could look at going for an external filter if you're planning on changing it. Externals are slightly more expensive but offer quite a few pro's such as easier maintenance, more space in tank, larger media providing larger surface area which in turn offers better filtration. Externals can usually run for longer between maintenances before needing cleaning.

You are right regarding the plants, the do add another dimension to the tank so you maybe best getting your head around the fish side of things first then when you decide you want another challenge switch to live plants

Andy

 

[OldMan47]

Heaters are often a separate thing, not part of the filter. There are heaters made that get mounted in the hose for an external filter so that they are not visible in the tank. For a tank the size that you are considering, you should probably get a 150W heater so that you have adequate heat without an excessively large heater. I much prefer the fully submersible heaters like the Visi-therm Stealth that has a plastic case so that rough fish don't hurt it. My daughter lost several glass type heaters to her severums before she got a Stealth.
An external filter, what we call a canister filter in the US, remove most of the clutter from a tank and leave only an inlet tube and a return spray bar in the tank. The rest of the filter ends up hidden in that cabinet under the tank. I have both external filters on my 29 gallon tank, I favor the Rena XP1 for that size tank, and Fluval internals. Both are dead silent when set up properly. The Rena costs more to buy but has a few advantages over an internal. The internal is in essence a simple sponge filter with a built in power head so it is not very flexible in terms of filter media and when removed from the tank for cleaning it tends to lose some of the dirt it has picked up back into the tank water. The canister holds all of the material that it has filtered from the water even when shut off for cleaning. The canister also is very flexible in terms of the media you can use with it. For example, if you find that you need to load some carbon into the filter, it is easy to drop a bag of carbon into a canister and you are ready to go.