What the heck happened?

[PheonixKingZ]

Again, I concur with @Byron. Did you alcimate them before adding them to your tank?

 

[seangee]

May I ask why you are trying to control tds or buffer if you are keeping soft water fish? The water I use in my Tetra tank has a tds of 9. I never add anything to this.

 

[Larry Licata]

If the fish died in less than 4 hours, your water is either just flat out poison, the acclimation process went wrong, or the fish were weak and you just got stuck with them.

It seems that it's option 1, there is something seriously wrong with your water. The only thing you really need to add is prime or something to remove chlorine. I only use salt when treating disease.

I would say that letting a bio wheel bob in water for few days would do next to nothing as far as growing bacteria goes.

Even if your tank wasn't cycled, it would take a few days for ammonia to build and to effect the fish. Something is seriously wrong here.

Was this tank new from the store or used?

Used tank, Tossed existing filter and gravel. Cleaned tank with H2O( hot ) only. Purchased new gravel ( washed and rewashed), new Penguin 350, 150 w heater. We are on a city water system ( not well) and it is pretty hard from my experience.

 

[Larry Licata]

Again, I concur with @Byron. Did you alcimate them before adding them to your tank?

Yes, Sat bag in the tank for 40 min, to acclimate temp, Opened bag added a little tank water in. let it sit another 15 min, take while bag out net fish out and run them over to tank. Lost tanks to Icky water in the past if you pour LFS water right in .....

 

[Larry Licata]

May I ask why you are trying to control tds or buffer if you are keeping soft water fish? The water I use in my Tetra tank has a tds of 9. I never add anything to this.

2 reasons... I am buffering on recommendation of my LFS ( Not a big box store kind of pet store ) My ph was kind of running away and not stabilizing. TDS is more of me trying to match my legacy tank that is successful to a new tank ( massively unsuccessful.. right now) .... I also think that my GH for where I live is hard, and tetras are by far the most successful genus of fish I have kept. I will be dropping down my Salt levels to what @Byron suggested.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Don’t take recommendations from your LFS. Even if they take care of their fish, they still might give you bad/incorrect advice.

 

[Larry Licata]

Well,

Don’t take recommendations from your LFS. Even if they take care of their fish, they still might give you bad/incorrect advice.

Yea..... Need to pass knowledge stuff thru here unless its an emergency. You guys have been pretty spot in with help.

 

[Larry Licata]

Here is my battle plan:

75% to 90% water change in new tank
Recondition water
Skip Ph buffering lets see if my PH is stable after tank cycles. maybe larger tank will keep PH stable.
Re-starting tank cycle with Tetra SafeStart Plus ( I have used filter media sitting in there now )
adding aquarium salts to get my TDS to between 100-150ppm, After I populate I will lock the TDS at that #
Waiting until approx April to repopulate with legacy tank family ( will start with 1 or 2 fish ) see how it goes. If I see signs of death, out they go.
Will wait another week with alive healthy fish Will start slowly moving family members from my old tank.

how does that sound?
Questions. What will my chemistry show that my tank is properly cycling? what ## should I be going up or down?

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Do you have a liquid test kit? (Aka API master freshwater test kit?)

 

[Larry Licata]

Do you have a liquid test kit? (Aka API master freshwater test kit?)

API master + TDS tester

 

[TheTenthDoctor]

I'd have to say the fish were just too weak, what kind of tetras was it?

 

[Larry Licata]

I'd have to say the fish were just too weak, what kind of tetras was it?

Just a few Neon tetras, Have it narrowed down to New tank setup and chemistry. Restarting whole process.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Then yes, your chemistry will show if your tank is cycled. Your “battle plan” above sounds good to me.

 

[Byron]

This is all great info... I will bring down my tds to what you suggest. I will be restarting my cycle and adding Tetra Fast start.. I will be re-adding fish right around the start of baseball season. Byron--> I have been adding API AQUARIUM SALT Freshwater Aquarium Salt and using the directions on a the box as a guide (1Tbs per 5 Gallons) and only adding salts when I do water changes, not when adding water. I will be bringing down the TDS in both my tanks to around 150 ( roughly half) by using treated / buffered tap water. not using table salt!

Do not use aquarium salt. It has absolutely no benefit when used as you describe (meaning, not to deal with a specific issue but just some sort of "prevention" or whatever), but it does negatively impact all freshwater fish. You can read how in my published article here:

Salt FW Aq Art Hosking

Do one or more major water changes; that is the only way to remove salt once it is dissolved in the tank water.

Aquarium salt (or sea salt) is very effective treating certain disease/parasite issues, but that is a very different thing.

 

[Byron]

Here is my battle plan:

75% to 90% water change in new tank
Recondition water
Skip Ph buffering lets see if my PH is stable after tank cycles. maybe larger tank will keep PH stable.
Re-starting tank cycle with Tetra SafeStart Plus ( I have used filter media sitting in there now )
adding aquarium salts to get my TDS to between 100-150ppm, After I populate I will lock the TDS at that #
Waiting until approx April to repopulate with legacy tank family ( will start with 1 or 2 fish ) see how it goes. If I see signs of death, out they go.
Will wait another week with alive healthy fish Will start slowly moving family members from my old tank.

how does that sound?
Questions. What will my chemistry show that my tank is properly cycling? what ## should I be going up or down?

No, this is not going to work. If you intend soft water fish such as neon tetras mentioned, you want the TDS as low or close to zero as possible. And you do not want any "buffering" nonsense. The fish store is leading you astray, and to dead fish again.

Now, some comment on the pH issue. Every aquarium has its own unique biological system that will establish over a few months. The GH, KH and pH of the source water are primarily responsible for this, but there are also other factors such as fish load, plants, CO2 from the breakdown of organics, etc. The aquarium is a very artificial environment, but the laws of the natural world respecting water chemistry and biology will still completely govern the system. During the first few months, the system will be more fluctating, again depending upon the initial factors. As it ages it will stabilize. Regular (meaning once each week) significant (meaning 50-70% of the tank volume) water changes along with not overstocking or inappropriately stocking and not overfeeding the fish, will establish stability. Leave it alone. Select fish suited to your water parameters (primarily GH, also pH).

I don't know if parameters were posted earlier in this thread, but we need to know the GH, KH and pH of the source (tap) water on its own. Run some fresh water at the tap and test this if you have these tests, or track down the website of your municipal water authority and see if this data is posted; or call them.

When testing pH of tap water you need to let it sit 24 hours before testing. Not needed with aquarium water, just for pH of tap water.

EDIT. Forgot this previously...your method of introducing new fish is spot on.