What Should I Do..... Nitrates High In Tap Water

[Behold]

I just tested my tap water prior to starting my cycle.

Im using the API Master Kit and altho ammonia and Nitrite are 0 PH is about 7-7.2 my NitrAtes are 40ppm

What do i do

I have read 40ppm is not dangerous and i can go up to about 100ppm is that right?

What should i do.....

Thanks

 

[rdd1952]

In the UK, that seems to be the norm. 80 to 100 is usually considered to be the number you want to stay below. You shouldn't have any problems as long as you don't overstock and have a good maintenance schedule.

 

[Puffdaddy]

If your tank is well planted with live plants, they will help keep the nitrates low.

 

[rdd1952]

Even at that you probably won't ever be able to get the nitrates lower than the 40ppm in your tap water. A heavily planted tank will use most of the ammonia before it is eer converted to nitrate.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

My normal suggestion to people is...try to keep your Nitrate levels at no more than 10-15 ppms over the amount in your tap. The lower your Nitrates are, the healthier the water is for your fish, but of course there are limits on what we can do with what we are given.

Plants can and do certainly help...even if it's just by sucking up some of the Ammonia released into the water...that's Ammonia that won't be converted to Nitrate.

If you are super anal about these kinds of things you can actually build a special kind of filter called a denitrator (usually seen on saltwater tanks but can be used on FW tanks), but it really isn't necessary.

 

[Behold]

My normal suggestion to people is...try to keep your Nitrate levels at no more than 10-15 ppms over the amount in your tap. The lower your Nitrates are, the healthier the water is for your fish, but of course there are limits on what we can do with what we are given.

Plants can and do certainly help...even if it's just by sucking up some of the Ammonia released into the water...that's Ammonia that won't be converted to Nitrate.

If you are super anal about these kinds of things you can actually build a special kind of filter called a denitrator (usually seen on saltwater tanks but can be used on FW tanks), but it really isn't necessary.

How do you build a filter??? any details? im gonna have some plants not sure how many but not loads 3-4. I guess it might not drop but should hinder rising.

Thanks

 

[backtotropical]

I dont know how to make your own, but you can buy them. Look in your lfs, i dont think they are too expensive.

 

[Davidtq]

The levels arent necesarily bad although if you plant up your tank you could get your tank to take that down nicely. Down here in South Devon tap water nitrites are normally undetectable and nitrate normaly under 5ppm. In a well planted tank I normally aim for no traceable levels of nitrate. Plants consume waste once its converted to nitrate not in ammonia form they also use up phosphate. My water changes normally increase my nitrate levels

Filtration denitration isnt all that difficult to do, but plants look nice.

 

[Davidtq]

You can denitrate in freshwater tanks using anaerobic bacteria as well, what you need is a suitable media to put in a basket inside an external filter, works on the same principle as live rock in a marine tank although I found when playing around with it that freshwater aquairums respond better to rubble like very porus materials, The bacteria consume the nitrates and expel plain nitrogen gas, which which normally leave the tank naturally.

 

[andywg]

Plants consume waste once its converted to nitrate not in ammonia form

Hmm, not sure on ammonia, but most of my reading shows plants prefer ammonium to nitrate.

According to this link, of 33 tested species only 4 preffered nitrate to ammonia. from my reading of people discussing reviews on natural planted aquaria, if a tank is set up for plants properly from the start, no ammnia is ever detected as the plants utilise that before nitrates.

If plants only took up nitrates, how would people run planted tanks without filters yet never see any ammonia on their tests?

Diana Walstead (author of The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium) states that plants generally prefer ammonium to nitrates. This view is based on a peer-reviewed publication that cited results from a study done with Spirodela (a kind of large duckweed). This floating plant was grown in a mix of equal concentrations of ammonium, nitrite and nitrate. Tests showed that the ammonium was absorbed first, and nitrate last. Nitrate was used up, but only after practically all the ammonium ions were gone.

Filtration denitration isnt all that difficult to do, but plants look nice.

It is not that easy to maintain at a useful rate without utilising redox meters linked to dosing pumps to ensure just the right rate of flow goes through the filter.

 

[Davidtq]

Ive never heard of that one before but I have seen existing nitrates in water dissapear with plants added and stay down. I would guess plants would be forced to compete with filter bacteria for ammonia as a source of food perhaps over time weakening the bacteria colony in the filter media? or perhaps even giving it further safety margins? but certainly in a tank with nitrates to begin with the nitrates in the tank do at least in my experience go right down.

As for the filteration rates I dont use redox meters I just keep an eye on the basics ammonia nitrite and nitrate, if they are all at 0 its working just fine. if nitrates are going up its time to look at the media or the flow rate.

 

[djceri_g]

You can get nitrate removal spounge in your filter. I have near enough 0 NirtAtes from my tap water! Now good when you need to keep plants!

 

[andywg]

Ive never heard of that one before but I have seen existing nitrates in water dissapear with plants added and stay down. I would guess plants would be forced to compete with filter bacteria for ammonia as a source of food perhaps over time weakening the bacteria colony in the filter media? or perhaps even giving it further safety margins? but certainly in a tank with nitrates to begin with the nitrates in the tank do at least in my experience go right down.

From my reading, when there is no ammonium easily available (such as when the filter is running full and there are abundant nitrates) then plants will take up nitrates.

I would assume that eventually the plants begin to out-compete the filter bacteria, thus the continued lower nitrate presence is due to the ammonia not being processed into nitrates (what better way to prevent high nitrates than to prevent them ever being formed?).

Rather than giving extra buffering on the filtration capacity, I would expect they probably weaken it over time, though this would only be a problem if you later decide to rip out all the plants.

As for the filteration rates I dont use redox meters I just keep an eye on the basics ammonia nitrite and nitrate, if they are all at 0 its working just fine. if nitrates are going up its time to look at the media or the flow rate.

I know a few people who have tried denitrators and eventually either gave up or bought a redox meter and dosing pump. On systems with larger bioloads (big pred tanks) with high oxygen demands (preventing large scale planting) it seems very hard to adequately control.

I myself plan to try a deep sand bed instead. It works in SW, so should work in FW by giving a large anoxic (or at least greatly hypoxic) area for anaerobic bacteria to form. However, I have a reef tank to finish setting up first.

 

[Davidtq]

From my reading, when there is no ammonium easily available (such as when the filter is running full and there are abundant nitrates) then plants will take up nitrates.

That would make sense obviously there would be no way for me to realistically know what was consuming the ammonia long term, and Ive had no reason to rip out plants and measure ammonia levels to see whats going on.

I would assume that eventually the plants begin to out-compete the filter bacteria, thus the continued lower nitrate presence is due to the ammonia not being processed into nitrates (what better way to prevent high nitrates than to prevent them ever being formed?).

Rather than giving extra buffering on the filtration capacity, I would expect they probably weaken it over time, though this would only be a problem if you later decide to rip out all the plants.

I would imagine it depends on the setup but if there is still a colony of filter bacteria in the media although reduced in size if there was a sudden ammonia spike the filter bacteria would be able to effectively double their uptake very very quickly, with the colony only being at half what it would be without plants, it would seem that there would be more easily available ideal space etc on the media, unlike a normal starting cycle you would be starting witha far higher bumber of bacteria to start with so the population doubling times would kick the ammonia spike in touch far quicker than in a fresh tank start up or a normal established tank. Thats just going by the logic that filters do seem to have a limit to what bioload they can handle, and if they are only running at 20% due to plants taking up the other 80% of the tank load then they can get up to 100% within a day or two to tackle an ammonia spike.

I know a few people who have tried denitrators and eventually either gave up or bought a redox meter and dosing pump. On systems with larger bioloads (big pred tanks) with high oxygen demands (preventing large scale planting) it seems very hard to adequately control.

Well I guess part of why what I do works is because I tend to understock my tanks, I hate overly busy tanks, even big cichlids I prefer to keep in tanks that are undertocked and not overworked I used to keep my trimac and dempsey as the only two fish in a 800l setup

I myself plan to try a deep sand bed instead. It works in SW, so should work in FW by giving a large anoxic (or at least greatly hypoxic) area for anaerobic bacteria to form. However, I have a reef tank to finish setting up first.

What are you planning on using to turn the DSB over? in a marine tank you get allsorts of special creatures to turn the bed over to keep it from turning completely anoxic, which doesnt always work but when a DSB crashes due to losing the organisms turning it over its a virtually guaranteed wipe out

 

[andywg]

What are you planning on using to turn the DSB over? in a marine tank you get allsorts of special creatures to turn the bed over to keep it from turning completely anoxic, which doesnt always work but when a DSB crashes due to losing the organisms turning it over its a virtually guaranteed wipe out

Nothing (save probably for some of the millions of Malayan Trumpet Snails I seem to keep with my fish).

I am intrigued as to just how essential the critters in a SW DSB are. For a marine DSB to work it has to be a good depth (minimum 6"). I have observed the one in my old sump and most of the critters inhabit the top region. There was no evidence I could see of anything hanging around around 8" of depth.

From my understanding the crashes are where the DSB gets too disturbed and where it has previously acted somewhat as a nutrient sink, suddenly releases a large amount of nutrients into the system.

I will not be running the DSB in the tank, but in a spare sump tank. I used to run my 6x2x2 through two sumps full of alfagrog. Now I tun it rhough a wet dry trickle tower into one sump, leaving another free tank to play with. Once I get some time for a couple of minor alterations I shall fill with sand and have a small water flow across it and see what happens.

I don't have any real fear of crashing as being a FW tank there is not going to be the sensitive inverts present in a reef tank. It is mostly just to see what happens, and wonder whether it is the critters or the bacteria which are necessary for the DSB to work.

What I may do is leave the alfagrog (ceramic filter media) inthe tnak and pour the sand on so that there will definitely be some void spaces further down to prevent the sand becoming too compressed at the bottom.

I daresay I shall post up here looking for opinions once I get around to it.