What should I do next

Ted's Mom

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I really want to do this right since it is for my four-year-old son. We got a beginner kit: 10 gal tank, filter, heater, light, gravel, a ceramic skull, something called stress coat and something else called ammo lock. Well we set everything up, let it all run while we were on vacation, and now we were planning to add fish. But I thought plants would be nice and I should do some research. Well one search leads to another. I learned about cycling and then fishless cycling. Apparently we've done everything wrong, but no fish have been added yet. I guess I'll just dump the tank and start again. Two questions: 1) which plants should I put in. 2) what kinds of fish should I try. They should be active and colorful because they are mainly for a four-year-old who loves fish and wants to turn our house into an Aquarium.

Thanks
 
First, welcome to probably the most fascinating hobby there is. Second, let's try to get you off to a good start. Don't dump the tank, there's no need. I'm glad that you found out about fishless cycling and wondered if that is what you want to do before adding any fish. What exactly is in the tank now? Once we have some answers, then we can carry on from there.
 
Hi, Ted's mom.

Apparently we've done everything wrong, but no fish have been added yet.
Then there's most likely no harm done. :)

If the tank was empty (except for gravel, decorations, and water), you probably don't have to dump it out and start over. But, you'll still be starting 'from the beginning', so it probably wouldn't hurt.

And, sounds like you're doing this already, but I would strongly suggest you learn as much as possible beforehand -- particularly about chemical additives. With a little luck, you'll never need to open that bottle of Ammo Lock.

Anyway, ...

About plants, first the long answer. I'm going to assume that you're using the 'standard' lighting that came with the tank. In that case, the thing you want to search for is "low-light" "low-maintenance" plants. The Plantgeek site is an excellent source of information, and their Plant Profile section allows you to sort plants in a variety of categories (the site seems to be down at the moment, for some reason).

Now, the short answer: look at java fern, java moss, anubias, hygrophilia polysperma, hornwort, anacharis, and 'crypts', for a start.

About fish, I've seen the following a few times, and it makes sense to me:

For very young children, it's often best to get a smaller number of distinctive fish, rather than, say, a school of fish, because the child can relate better to individuals.

In any case, active and colorful...

Cory catfish aren't really colorful (as in bright colors, like reds, blues, etc.), but they're a hoot to watch, most of them stay small, and they do a good job cleaning up the bottom of the tank. A pair or three should do nicely in a 10g tank. Now that I think of it, I'd definitely suggest a few cories in a child's tank.

Kuhli loaches are one of my personal favorites, and they're very colorful and distinctive, but unless they're in a large group, they tend to hide a lot during the 'day'. (Also a bottom dweller, like the cories).

Platys are very colorful (and quite hardy), and fairly active, but you probably wouldn't want more than one or two in a 10 gallon.

If you prefer a smaller schooling fish, the obvious choice for colorful would be neon tetras or cardinal tetras. These fish are sometimes not too hardy, though, and a few will probably die before they 'stabilize'. That might be a Bad Thing.

To stay with a school, and up the 'active', but lose some 'color', you could also go with harlequin rasboras. Although not as 'bright' as neons, they are distinctive, and from what I read, tend to form tighter schools.

(Schooling fish like these are better kept in groups of six or more, so if you get a school, I personally probably wouldn't put anything else in a tank that size except maybe a pair of cories).

There are also barbs, which tend to be colorful, but I don't know much about them, as I have larger tanks, and they tend to be semi-aggressive.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks. This is really helpful, especially about the fishes.

So far all that is in tank is water, gravel — a shiny kind, and the skull. I did add a teaspoon of the Ammo Lock and the other stuff before I knew what it would do. Just following the directions. The light is actually an upgrade to a flourescent one, so it's quite bright.

How do I plant the plants?
 
I'm in the same place as Ted'sMom , 4 year old and all, with the exceptions that I did keep a very helth take over 15 years ago. But I think I was at least half lucky!

Anyway, let me shortcut you on some of the stuff I've already found in my endless reading and browsing this and other boards and web sites. This is all just what I've gathered so far from reading through lots of conversations and debates over certain issues.

Now don't take my word for it, these are just my conclusions from my reading. Be sure to continue looking and asking, but maybe this will help you in some way to save time (I understand time saving and four year olds, believe me).

-------

Here are my conclusions so far:

There is nothing wrong with using plastic plants. Nothing at all. Esecially for beginners. Plants require all kinds of additional preparation and care. And from my perspective, they aren't appealing for that reason -- learning to care for fish properly is enough work for right now, thanks. The 1.99 to 3.50 plants at Petsmart don't look so great in the package, but once you put them in water, they look pretty good. From the reading, some fish perfer real plants, especailly for breeding, but reality is there seem to be more than enough that don't care.

Look here for lists of fish that will tell you some very useful information about who they get along with, what they eat, level of care, and well, just oodles of information:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.c...d=21&pcatid=830

They also have this cool index of info right here:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general...ral_pagesid=176
And very nice step by step right here:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general...ral_pagesid=229
I used that info a lot to focus my research and to ask more questions.

Cycling. Fishless is the way to go according to most, except for a select few that have tried and had success with a product called Bio-Spira. The people that have used Bio-Spira successfully and correctly report that it does, in fact, when done right, equate to a virtually instant cycle. Now it's controversial, but I've mulled it over, and this is the route I have decided on. Also, there is a pretty wide consensus about something called Cycle not working very well.

What we've been doing is going to lots of fish stores and making lists of things my son likes. Then we come home and we look them up on line and see if they will fit in nicely with others, how hard they are to feed, etc. etc.


So that's the research online, etc.

---------

This was how I researched what my son would really like:


Once we find a fish that we think we want on our list, I copy a picture of one and paste it into WORD. Then I scale them to their real life size using the rulers in Word make a whole sheet of them and print them out. I also print out some rocks, ships, plants, etc.

Then I give my son his safety scissors and some scotch tape and I let him play paper dolls on the tank. From watching him what I found was what he wanted from his fish. I was amazed that he picked up from just going to fish stores and seeing pictures on line which fish are loners and which are schoolers. He's definitely MOST interested in schooling fish. He's also interested in certain larger individual fish, but the schoolers he really digs.

----


And now this is just a side note, but I made my son earn his set up and his fish. We made a behavior/responsibilities chart having to do with preschool and put gravel, decorations, plants, and fish at different levels on the chart so that as he earned his goals on the chart, he got to make his final decisions in each category and then go to the store to buy that thing.

The reason I did this was to reinforce that having fish is both fun and a responsibility, and I wanted him to take the process as seriously as appropriate for a four year old so I could be sure he wouldn't just discard the whole thing like this weeks favorite toy. He's up to fish this week, so with some luck he'll get his first few by Monday or Wednesday.
 
Some good info, Socrates, but I must respectfully disagree with this statement. Nothing personal, but I'd like to point it out, as info for others, and because it's sort of a personal peeve of mine:

Plants require all kinds of additional preparation and care.

Preparation, I will grant you, if that includes research beforehand. However, I think plants sort of get an undeserved 'bad rap' about their needs.

Usually, because I think people think of them as just "plants", as in one is just like another. If we thought of fish as just "fish", and didn't break them down into categories (freshwater, saltwater, brackish, aggressive, etc.), they'd be hard to care for, and probably die a lot, too.

I strongly believe that with proper research, resulting in choosing the right plants for your conditions and needs, anyone has a very good chance to successfully grow plants with no other care other than trimming them every once in a while, when they get too large.

As an example, I use my 10 gallon quarantine tank as a nursery. Standard 'kit', came all packaged in a box, regular lighting, marginal filter, no modifications, just regular gravel for substrate (neon blue, no less! :), no CO2 injection, no fertilizers. Just regular water changes, to keep the fish healthy. In short, I can hardly think of a way of giving these plants less care, barring not turning the lights on.

And my plantlets grow very well. No (or, at the most, minimal) signs of nutrient deficiency, good color, decent growth rate. Just lucky? Could be. But, I have to doubt that.

Now, if I took that same tank, and planted a bunch of rotala and made a big carpet of glasso and mondo grass, then it would probably turn into a pile of mush pretty quickly. The first two require high light, and mondo grass is not a true aquatic. Which brings up another point....

Unfortunately, some stores (in my experience, it happens more frequently in 'chain' stores) label and sell plants for aquariums that are not meant to be fully submerged. This helps spread the idea that plants are hard to take care of, because they invariably die, no matter what you do. Again, research is your friend.

And sometimes, we hobbyists ourselves don't help the situation, either. Often, when someone asks about growing plants, they'll be told something like "You need a $200 light fixture, some $4/pound substrate material, a pressurized CO2 injection system, and these four fertilizers -- add these two every day, one every other day, and the other once a week. And get a phosphate test kit."

While that is not a bad recommendation, in itself, most of it can be unnecessary. True, with all that stuff, you should be able to grow any aquatic plant, but usually it's not needed -- again, if you choose the correct plants for your situation.

Anyway, rant over. :whistle:

As far as planting plants goes, I generally break plants down into three basic categories:

1) Root plants -- Like your typical outdoor plant, large root system, usually comes potted. In this case, remove the pot and as much of the rockwool (the material inside the pot) as possible, and plant it like you would an outdoor plant. One thing worthy of note: many root plants, notably the 'crypts', do not like to be moved around once they get established. If they do get moved (or moved often), you may see that all the leaves 'melt' away. Although it usually doesn't kill the plant outright (from what I understand), it can take months to get the leaves to grow back. If you ever hear the term 'crypt melt', this is what people are talking about.

2) Rhizome plants -- such as anubias and java ferns. These plants usually have leaves growing from a rhizome (looks like a horizontal 'stem' near the bottom), from which roots also eventually grow. It is important to make sure the rhizome is not buried, or it will rot, and the plant will die. These plants are often tied to a piece of driftwood or a rock, to keep them from floating. Once roots start growing from the rhizome, they often eventually attach themselves to the rock or wood. However, at this point, these plants also do fine by planting the roots into your gravel (leaving the rhizome uncovered).

3) Stem plants -- usually do not have an extensive root system (hygrophilia is an exception I know of, it can grow tremendous roots). Can usually be planted by just sticking the end of the stem into the gravel, and moving the gravel a bit to keep the plant secured. Most people will recommend trimming off any leaves that will end up below the gravel, because they will just rot there.

Some stem plants, like anacharis and hornwort, are also 'floaters'. That is, they can do equally well, if not better, by just floating in your tank. I've personally never been able to keep hornwort planted for more than a week, ever.
 
Well said about the plants, Bol.

Both my tanks (16g and 34g) are heavily planted and the plants grow well, to the extent that I have to remove 1/4 of them every month. I have never needed to use fertilizer or CO2. I even have less light than is recommended in one of the tanks. As Bol said, it's choosing the right type of plant for the conditions in your tank that matters.
 

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