What Puffer
- Thread starter spilz
- Start date
what sort of tank size do you have?
how about a dwarf puffer? they only grow to 1"
heres a link
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=90950
how about a dwarf puffer? they only grow to 1"
heres a link
http
/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=90950its good to feed them snails cos it helps keep their teeth short.
u can pick them up for free from your lfs.
i feed mine live bloodworm as well as frozen, live brine shrimp, daphnia and cockles, havent tried mussles and prawns yet.
its not as bad as u think feeding snails. i have a small breeding tank that i put them in when i pick a whole bag up from the lfs.
u can pick them up for free from your lfs.
i feed mine live bloodworm as well as frozen, live brine shrimp, daphnia and cockles, havent tried mussles and prawns yet.
its not as bad as u think feeding snails. i have a small breeding tank that i put them in when i pick a whole bag up from the lfs.
Most puffers will require snails in their diet. They also won't eat dried food, and will need specific care.
i have an abundance of little snails, the sort you get when you buy plants lol, they breed like rabbitsnails. would these be ok for the puffer, there are a lot in there, rest of diet seems ok, do they need specific water care?
Regardless of how many you have, chances are, the puffer will lower the population too quickly for it to be long term diet.
Get some frozen bloodworm, cockle, mussel etc for puffers.
The most likely puffer to work with your option is a South American Puffer, but you'll have to be aware that even with snails, it's quite possible you might need to trim it's teeth.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
I'm with Fella on this. Only two species of puffer come anywhere near being reliable community fish: SAPs and irrbuesco (red-tail) puffers. Neither are 100% safe, but most work out pretty well with the right tankmates. Plecs seem to work with both, as do Ancistrus, Otocinclus, Panaque, etc. I would not risk whiptail catfish though -- I suspect their long tails would just be too much tempation.
SAPs get to about 8 cm in captivity, and will work fine in any tank big enough for a plec. A common plec should be kept in a tank at least 1 metre long, which will give an SAP ample swimming space. Bristlenose plecs (Ancistrus spp.) can get by with less, but even a 60-80 cm tank should be acceptable for an SAP provided you install plenty of water current. SAPs are river species and have an instinctive need to swim all day long. The only time they rest is at night, when they settle onto the sand (or in it, sometimes).
Red-tail puffers are rather shy, difficult to find in the shops, and often expensive. They are lovely puffers though, once settled in. Some seem a bit delicate on import, and need lots of TLC for the first few weeks. A few specimens have been reported to be fin-nippers, but most seem to be placid and easy-going when kept with appropriate tankmates. Don't mix with guppies or angelfish, for example, but anything fast-moving, like tetras and danios, will be fine.
As Fella said, the downside to SAPs is that they have very fast-growing teeth. To some extent snails will prevent the overgrowth of these, but people's experiences do vary. I find snails do the trick all by themselves, at least to the degree where there is little growth even in an entire year. Others find this not to be the case. Perhaps the type of snail used, and how often they're provided, matters?
On the other hand, IMHO, the SAP is by far the toughest of all the commonly traded pufferfish. It's the least affected by pH, hardness, salinity, or nitrate levels. What it does like is a mature filter, strong water current, lots of oxygen, non-aggressive tankmates, and one or more companions of its own species. My only bad experience with this species was losing one after it "bruised" itself after throwing itself around the tank.
Cheers,
Neale
SAPs get to about 8 cm in captivity, and will work fine in any tank big enough for a plec. A common plec should be kept in a tank at least 1 metre long, which will give an SAP ample swimming space. Bristlenose plecs (Ancistrus spp.) can get by with less, but even a 60-80 cm tank should be acceptable for an SAP provided you install plenty of water current. SAPs are river species and have an instinctive need to swim all day long. The only time they rest is at night, when they settle onto the sand (or in it, sometimes).
Red-tail puffers are rather shy, difficult to find in the shops, and often expensive. They are lovely puffers though, once settled in. Some seem a bit delicate on import, and need lots of TLC for the first few weeks. A few specimens have been reported to be fin-nippers, but most seem to be placid and easy-going when kept with appropriate tankmates. Don't mix with guppies or angelfish, for example, but anything fast-moving, like tetras and danios, will be fine.
As Fella said, the downside to SAPs is that they have very fast-growing teeth. To some extent snails will prevent the overgrowth of these, but people's experiences do vary. I find snails do the trick all by themselves, at least to the degree where there is little growth even in an entire year. Others find this not to be the case. Perhaps the type of snail used, and how often they're provided, matters?
On the other hand, IMHO, the SAP is by far the toughest of all the commonly traded pufferfish. It's the least affected by pH, hardness, salinity, or nitrate levels. What it does like is a mature filter, strong water current, lots of oxygen, non-aggressive tankmates, and one or more companions of its own species. My only bad experience with this species was losing one after it "bruised" itself after throwing itself around the tank.
Cheers,
Neale
thanks for the effort put in guys, especially nmonks, but after learnin more about the puffers, no matter how much of a nice fish they are, i dont want to risk puttin one in my tank with my plec, i am however, going to build a puffer tank when my next student loan comes through. thanks again for all the help, very informative, saved me making a mistake
spilz
spilz
As regards puffers as community fish IMHO and IME they do not ideally fit the bill. As you have said a species tank would be the best set up for a puffer.
Puffers have a habit of simply turning aggressive overnight and this can relate no morely strongly to than the irrubesco. I would highly advise against keeping these with other fish as they are not fin nippers but highly aggressive killers.I have witnessed this first hand.
The SAP as mentioned is probably the most placid of puffers when it comes to tank mates. I have had them in with other fish but find they do better on their own or with their own species preferably.
A good set up would be a few SAP's as been said in a tank large enough to house a plec as well. They will do better in groups and there should be no issues with them getting food as that can be a problem. Again the teeth on this species can be a problem but if fed a good crunchy diet then then need for dentistry can be reduced.
Puffers have a habit of simply turning aggressive overnight and this can relate no morely strongly to than the irrubesco. I would highly advise against keeping these with other fish as they are not fin nippers but highly aggressive killers.I have witnessed this first hand.
The SAP as mentioned is probably the most placid of puffers when it comes to tank mates. I have had them in with other fish but find they do better on their own or with their own species preferably.
A good set up would be a few SAP's as been said in a tank large enough to house a plec as well. They will do better in groups and there should be no issues with them getting food as that can be a problem. Again the teeth on this species can be a problem but if fed a good crunchy diet then then need for dentistry can be reduced.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
Rocker --
I do recall your experience with irrubesco being dangerous, and I'm very mindful of that. But I've spoken with many people who've kept this species, including people who write books/articles about puffers, and none of them have had your experience. I suspect you were very unlucky. I'd be tempted to put down your experience of an irrubesco attacking and killing tetras out of hand as being an aberration, as you sometimes see with fish (and people). I've seen psychotic angelfish that attacked everything in the tank, but that isn't typical of the species. Do you think this might be possible in your case?
I can only speak from experience: my two irrubesco are entirely peaceful and attack nothing at all. I've had them about a year without any bad surprises along the way. The female mostly hides except when she's hungry and the tank is quiet, and the male swims along the back of the tank "puffing" himself up to scare away his reflection.
Similarly, the SAPs, though some people say they can't be kept in community tanks, are actually fine, provided kept with the right types of tankmates. Frankly, I'm glad to see people have stopped saying that they can only be kept singly because of their aggression -- it's obvious that they are schooling fish that need company.
Cheers,
Neale
I do recall your experience with irrubesco being dangerous, and I'm very mindful of that. But I've spoken with many people who've kept this species, including people who write books/articles about puffers, and none of them have had your experience. I suspect you were very unlucky. I'd be tempted to put down your experience of an irrubesco attacking and killing tetras out of hand as being an aberration, as you sometimes see with fish (and people). I've seen psychotic angelfish that attacked everything in the tank, but that isn't typical of the species. Do you think this might be possible in your case?
I can only speak from experience: my two irrubesco are entirely peaceful and attack nothing at all. I've had them about a year without any bad surprises along the way. The female mostly hides except when she's hungry and the tank is quiet, and the male swims along the back of the tank "puffing" himself up to scare away his reflection.
Similarly, the SAPs, though some people say they can't be kept in community tanks, are actually fine, provided kept with the right types of tankmates. Frankly, I'm glad to see people have stopped saying that they can only be kept singly because of their aggression -- it's obvious that they are schooling fish that need company.
Cheers,
Neale
As you know i am also in contact with people who have kept them and they too have had similar experiences.
I might add though I have had more than one specimen of this species turn nasty.
I too had them for around two years with no problem at all, so a year is a little early IMO. They lived happily with DP's and I thought for the two years that the combo had worked. Not so and the female ended up killing everything in her path.
True there are good and bad in all species but from my experiences and the general feeling of people who have kept them they are as a rule of thumb aggressive as you would expect froma puffer. One I certainly wouldn't recommend housing with other tankmates.
However you are obviously very well aware of the possible situations but as I said I was comfortable housing them with other fish for two years. Its still early days.
I might add though I have had more than one specimen of this species turn nasty.
I too had them for around two years with no problem at all, so a year is a little early IMO. They lived happily with DP's and I thought for the two years that the combo had worked. Not so and the female ended up killing everything in her path.
True there are good and bad in all species but from my experiences and the general feeling of people who have kept them they are as a rule of thumb aggressive as you would expect froma puffer. One I certainly wouldn't recommend housing with other tankmates.
However you are obviously very well aware of the possible situations but as I said I was comfortable housing them with other fish for two years. Its still early days.
nmonks
A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from
Interesting. I wonder if there is more than one species of irrubesco? You may recall (depending on how old you are!) the situation with blue acaras back in the 1980s. Many people kept them because they were very pretty. Some people found them to be completely peaceful, others totally psychotic. Eventually it transpired that exporters were selling two different species under the one name: Aequidens pulcher and Aequidens rivulatus, a fish now known, rightly, as the Green Terror.
One reason I say this is that I was recently sent some pictures from someone who collects pufferfish in the wild. He showed me a single specimen that changed its colour very dramatically. In different pictures it was either C. salivator or C. borneensis! I am now EXTREMELY dubious about these species being distinct.
He also told me that C. lorteti collected Vietnam are "rather peaceful" whereas those from Thailand turn out to be serious fin-biters.
It may be similar here: some populations of C. irrubesco are docile, others less so. Or else there are different species sold as the same fish, as was the case with the blue acara.
Food for thought, anyway.
Cheers, Neale
One reason I say this is that I was recently sent some pictures from someone who collects pufferfish in the wild. He showed me a single specimen that changed its colour very dramatically. In different pictures it was either C. salivator or C. borneensis! I am now EXTREMELY dubious about these species being distinct.
He also told me that C. lorteti collected Vietnam are "rather peaceful" whereas those from Thailand turn out to be serious fin-biters.
It may be similar here: some populations of C. irrubesco are docile, others less so. Or else there are different species sold as the same fish, as was the case with the blue acara.
Food for thought, anyway.
Cheers, Neale
That would be interesting to find out if they are indeed aggressive depending on where they are collected.
I have heard similar reports on the C. lorteti, although IME they are harder to find than any of the Carinotetraodon family and do not know of anyone at the moment with any. It seems that people are finding the aggression in the borneensis and salivator species too but again, it can boil down to individual personalities. I had a male irrubesco that killed his two females a few years ago, then I had this female that just started after two years to kill everything in her path.I seperated her along withanother female as they still 'got on'. Sadly though she killed her as well. I now have lost her as I believe she jumped into the suvattii mating ground!
I have heard similar reports on the C. lorteti, although IME they are harder to find than any of the Carinotetraodon family and do not know of anyone at the moment with any. It seems that people are finding the aggression in the borneensis and salivator species too but again, it can boil down to individual personalities. I had a male irrubesco that killed his two females a few years ago, then I had this female that just started after two years to kill everything in her path.I seperated her along withanother female as they still 'got on'. Sadly though she killed her as well. I now have lost her as I believe she jumped into the suvattii mating ground!
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