What Next?

[alanchown]

My tanks been running for 3 months or so, stats as below

PH 7.0
KH 170PPM
Nitrates 10ppm (tap water seems about 40, Water authority says nearer 20)
CO2 via pressurised 30ppm
Phosphates 4ppm (according to my test kit anyway, water authority says less than 2 from the tap. I test 4+)
100L 36*15*12 inches

EI- K 1/4 tspoon, N 5ppm, P stopped for a while, trace all 3 x per week with trace alternate days.
50% water change weekly.

I'm getting a real problem with black hair algae and staghorn algae (not BBA). I was hoping the change to pressurised a few weeks back would help, but if anything it's got worse.
I have no problem growing plants, in fact it's a bit of a jungle, I thought I'd get the algae problem sorted before I tried my hand at a nice aquascape, and am nervous of having a big clear out of plants whilst the algae is still about. The algae seems worse where it gets less flow, so I've thinned things out a bit and cut everything down so the surface is clear.

Not sure what to do next-any ideas. ( I was shying from the idea of shrimp or SAE as the idea was a South American tank, but I'm not discounting it).

Getting a bit dihearened-not helped by the flood I had this week, followed by a filter leak(Eheim 2126 good filter, spoilt my crap tube connection).

Alan


Alan

 

[Themuleous]

Sorry to hear you're having algae problems. It is still a relatively young tank, but it should ahve settled by now. First off I would increase NO3 to 20ppm. I really think shrimp would help, they love algae and did wonders in my nano. You'll probably need a fiar few thou, say 20-30. So it might be expensive, but they do the job.

Other than that I'm all out of ideas. I guess you could also try running CO2 at 40ppm? That can help sometimes.

Sam

 

[alanchown]

Sorry to hear you're having algae problems. It is still a relatively young tank, but it should ahve settled by now. First off I would increase NO3 to 20ppm. I really think shrimp would help, they love algae and did wonders in my nano. You'll probably need a fiar few thou, say 20-30. So it might be expensive, but they do the job.

Other than that I'm all out of ideas. I guess you could also try running CO2 at 40ppm? That can help sometimes.

Sam

I was thinking along the same lines re. NO3. I posted a while ago regarding the fact that my test kits were giving results at odds with what the local water authority assured me were the actual levels. But I have been testing tank levels below that of tap water, so I assume that the NO3 is being used up, So I'll up the NO3.
It would be nice if we could have more confidence in the test kits!

Alan

 

[NAL]

Hi

Give us what you think your KH is in German degrees. I make it ~9.5, assuming you're quoting ppm of CaCO3 (although if you want to determine your CO2, dissolved calcium carbonate doesn't really have much to do with it-you want to know alkalinity). At pH 7, and given the above KH, I make it that you're already running near 40 ppm CO2. What is your light doing-how much? BTW, EI is well and good, but it sounds like you not too sure of what you have in the tank nutrient wise from your test kits and as a result of the tap water-If I had what your water company reports the only thing I would need to add would be K, depending on uptake. Their figures should be pretty accurate, and if so you are running quite high, in my opinion, on PO4 and NO3-I don't think you can just bang ferts in-if there is an excess building up, given time you will get your nutrients out of balance and algae will take advantage (I'm afriad I don't subscribe to the dosing with immunity and fix it with a water change school of thought). What kind of plants do you have in the tank-a lot of very fast growing stems would cope pretty good with those elveated nitrate and phosphate levels reported by the water company, but I don't think a tank with more slow growing plants would do. Also, I absolutely agree with Themuleous-get 30 or so Amano shrimp in there and add some SAE's-they may be the only thing to deal with the black hair algae.

Nick

 

[alanchown]

Hi

Give us what you think your KH is in German degrees. I make it ~9.5, assuming you're quoting ppm of CaCO3 (although if you want to determine your CO2, dissolved calcium carbonate doesn't really have much to do with it-you want to know alkalinity). At pH 7, and given the above KH, I make it that you're already running near 40 ppm CO2. What is your light doing-how much? BTW, EI is well and good, but it sounds like you not too sure of what you have in the tank nutrient wise from your test kits and as a result of the tap water-If I had what your water company reports the only thing I would need to add would be K, depending on uptake. Their figures should be pretty accurate, and if so you are running quite high, in my opinion, on PO4 and NO3-I don't think you can just bang ferts in-if there is an excess building up, given time you will get your nutrients out of balance and algae will take advantage (I'm afriad I don't subscribe to the dosing with immunity and fix it with a water change school of thought). What kind of plants do you have in the tank-a lot of very fast growing stems would cope pretty good with those elveated nitrate and phosphate levels reported by the water company, but I don't think a tank with more slow growing plants would do. Also, I absolutely agree with Themuleous-get 30 or so Amano shrimp in there and add some SAE's-they may be the only thing to deal with the black hair algae.

Nick

Lighting is 3watt per USGallon. Plants are pretty much all fast growing stem plants, with Glossops and Riccia and Amazon sword.

Alan

 

[plantbrain]

-I don't think you can just bang ferts in-if there is an excess building up, given time you will get your nutrients out of balance and algae will take advantage (I'm afriad I don't subscribe to the dosing with immunity and fix it with a water change school of thought). Nick

Well, for dealing with mainteanace of a range of NO3/PO4/K+/Fe etc, it's very stright forward.
Now...........CO2? 90-95% of all algae issues are CO2 related.
Not pruning regularly?
Neglecting the tank? Not cleaning the filter?
Pulling up soil from the substrate, using things with NH4? Too many fish?

Then it does not matter, because it's not the issue of higher NO3/PO4, it's something else you overlooked and just happened to test for NO3, which should build up if the plants are not taking it up.

High levels in and of themselves are not an issue with algae, algae will grow very well at levels far out side the range suitable for plants.

The basic math is 2X the weekly dose is the maximum possible build up for a 50% weekly water change.

So if you dosed 20ppm a week of NO3, and you assuem zero uptake=> after 4-8 weeks= 40ppm or a tad less.

~2.9ppm per day NO3 uptake is a fair amount.
Few plants will go hungry at that rate.
If you use KNO3 for this, then the K+ will be roughly 4X the demand based on the ratio of N to K+.

So you will not run out of either.

For lower lighted tanks, you can use less, there's no issue there.
Non CO2 tanks for example have a rate of about 8-10X less on average.


Perhaps you subscribe to the test kit school of thought?
What iof the test kit is wrong and inaccurate?
What if the person does not use their test kits?
What if they assume some one else's advice about the accuracy of a test kit is right and does not calibrate the test kit?
What if they do not want to buy a dozen test kits?

How many folks calibrate their test kits each time they buy a new one? How many even know how and want to deal with making a calibration solution?

You might say it really does not matter, but sorry, it does.
But if you used that same logic, I can say the samer thing about dosing based ona max uptake rate and then do a weekly 50% water change, the accuracy is greater and easier for most folks than any test kit method there is.

The water change and dosing EI method is every bit as practical and accurate as any test kit error range.

This can be show with statisticals and math models and standard errors.
It can also be shown with a basic practical does it work or not approach.

If folks are having issues with EI, it almost always tends to be CO2 related.
The nutrients are covered.
So you move on to what else it might be, CO2, filter cleaning etc

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[alanchown]

My tanks been running for 3 months or so, stats as below

PH 7.0
KH 170PPM
Nitrates 10ppm (tap water seems about 40, Water authority says nearer 20)
CO2 via pressurised 30ppm
Phosphates 4ppm (according to my test kit anyway, water authority says less than 2 from the tap. I test 4+)
100L 36*15*12 inches

EI- K 1/4 tspoon, N 5ppm, P stopped for a while, trace all 3 x per week with trace alternate days.
50% water change weekly.

I'm getting a real problem with black hair algae and staghorn algae (not BBA). I was hoping the change to pressurised a few weeks back would help, but if anything it's got worse.
I have no problem growing plants, in fact it's a bit of a jungle, I thought I'd get the algae problem sorted before I tried my hand at a nice aquascape, and am nervous of having a big clear out of plants whilst the algae is still about. The algae seems worse where it gets less flow, so I've thinned things out a bit and cut everything down so the surface is clear.

Not sure what to do next-any ideas. ( I was shying from the idea of shrimp or SAE as the idea was a South American tank, but I'm not discounting it).

Getting a bit dihearened-not helped by the flood I had this week, followed by a filter leak(Eheim 2126 good filter, spoilt my crap tube connection).

Alan


Alan

It seems that I have had a faulty filter since day 1! I have replaced the head and everything is now running fine-so hopefully a new start with a new filter. So it's quite possible that any and maybe every problem I have had may have been down to inadequate filtration. I must say that I have been less than impressed with my eheim-but hopefully all will be OK from here on in.

Alan

 

[Themuleous]

Hope it sorts things for you mate I know the annoyance of having algae, especially when you're going everything right!

 

[alanchown]

Hope it sorts things for you mate I know the annoyance of having algae, especially when you're going everything right!

Not half annoying as water all over the floor!

Alan

 

[Ginge]

Not been in the planted side long but could it be high end light bulbs? E.g. 8000K+?

 

[alanchown]

Not been in the planted side long but could it be high end light bulbs? E.g. 8000K+?

Not that caused the flood!

 

[danski]

this probably wont make you feel any better but i have been running my 29usg for about 8-9 months and still battling algae..i dose EI..have 130watts over it..run co2 constant at 30-40ppm..i dosed mastergro..cut back..tried lower wattage lights as now i have a set for 65watts..110watts..and now 130watts..and still have algae..seems to come and go and i cant quite figure out what it is,,i am now battling brown algae AgAiN..soooo..your definately not alone..im pulling my hair out to figure this thing out..oh i also use eco-complete..so go figure i think i have all the good stuff to do this but for some reason it just wont happen..i have tons of fast growers..they all pearl pretty good and have nice green color but the algae monster wont leave me alone..ive got seems like close to easily upper hundreds by now invested and im still missing something..hmmmmmmmmmmmm..not to mention i relaced my filter from a rena-filstar..to eheim..to now even a fluval 205..my wife is gonna leave me soon over this..but at least i will have my algae filled tank

 

[Squirrelbuddies]

Glad to hear you got the filter sorted out. I will comment, though, that I have found any change that is made to a tank impacts the growth of algae: changing lights, changing filters, changing substrate, massive pruning, inconsistent CO2, running out of nutrients -- all of this stuff -- seems to increase the presence of algae.

I have found that a planted tank that is in a "consistent state" with adequate CO2, nutrients and lighting remains nearly algae-free. It's when I change things the algae gets worse. Also, I find that the black furry stuff appears when I don't keep my plants thinned out.

Anyway, hope this helps and good luck!