What Kind Of Sand?

[fishguy2727]

Then from what sources do algae get nitrogen and phosphorus from?
What about the majority of tanks who have algae and no ammonia?
Why isn't there a massive algae bloom in tanks as they cycle?
Why is it that reducing nitrate and phosphate reduce algae in tanks that have excessive algae?
Then what causes algae?

 

[StandbySetting]

Then from what sources do algae get nitrogen and phosphorus from?

Ammonia, P from halides, hydrides and oxides.

What about the majority of tanks who have algae and no ammonia?

How can you be sure that they have no ammonia? You can't rely on the accuracy of hobby test kits, even trace levels are enough to sustain algal growth, once algae is present it can sustain itself on nitrate and phosphate as well as other nutrients.

Why isn't there a massive algae bloom in tanks as they cycle?

There generally is if lighting is present, if the tank receives little light however, the algae can't sustain itself.

Why is it that reducing nitrate and phosphate reduce algae in tanks that have excessive algae?

Because it starves the algae that has sustained itself on nitrate and phosphate previously, there can only be a population of size relative to the food available.

Then what causes algae?

As before, ammonia, unstable CO2 and too much light in relation to CO2 and nutrients.

 

[fishguy2727]

There is phosphorus in ammonia?

I can see a lot of that being the case, but I think you are taking a little liberty in stating that hobbyist kits are not accurate enough. You are effectively saying that if a test kit proves your idea wrong, the test kit is wrong, not you.

If algae can sustain itself on nitrate and phosphate why can't it develop with only those available?

Do you have any actual scientific support that ammonia causes algae or that algae cannot be caused by nitrate and phosphate?

So algae can live on nitrate and phosphate, and removing nitrate and phosphate can kill off algae, but nitrate and phosphate can't cause algae?

I don't see how algae can't be caused by nitrate. If algae can use ammonia or nitrate as a nitrogen source then it can use either as a nitrogen source, only one being required, not a particular one or the other.

 

[StandbySetting]

No, see reviewed edit.

There needs to be a large influx in the number of algae present in order for a viable population to be achieved, and a lot of energy is required to convert nitrate into ammonia/ammonium that the algae can utilise.

There are reports on the Barr Report, I would post them but can't as I no longer have a membership, however, Tom Barr is a member on here (Plantbrain) feel free to PM him.

No, see reviewed edit.

A lot of energy is required to convert nitrate into ammonia/ammonium that the algae can utilise, which is why the uptake of ammonium is favoured.

There are reports on the Barr Report, I would post them but can't as I no longer have a membership, however, Tom Barr is a member on here (Plantbrain) feel free to PM him.

 

[ian]

I'm afraid that Standby Setting is right. Ammonia and light cause algae, the n and p argument is very outdated. To this day you will still read it on forums that n and p do cause algae. We not know this isn't true. In a planted tank we use nitrates and phosphates freely.

see my journal

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/354455-ians-lounge-tank/

^^this tank was dosed daily with N and P, the nitrates sat around 60ppm. As you can see there is actually no algae at all and it never did have any.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

If a test kit continually shows "zero" ammonia, do you believe that it is truly "zero"? If it were truly "zero" wouldn't the bacteria that need it to survive all die?


The test kits we use are not sensitive enough to measure trace levels, which are and must be present in the tank for the bacteria to have a sufficient food supply to survive. The level is not high enough to cause a problem to the fish, but is there in sufficient quantity to sustain the bacteria. In addition to that, when circulation in a specific area drops down the ammonia can build up there, leading to a localized algae breakout. (At least that's my understanding.)

 

[ian]

there will always be ammonia in your water, whether a test kit shows it or not. This is another reason that it's a good idea to have good amount of flow around the tank. Then the ammonia doesn't hang around in one place and cause Diatoms, etc etc.

 

[fishguy2727]

I don't think stagnant water is causing algae, there is always some flow keeping the water mixed. And if there is ammonia in every tank then all those super balanced plant tanks would have it and algae as well.

I understand that ammonia is constantly produced if there are fish present, but I still don't really by this completely.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

My understanding is that those tanks do have ammonia... but under the proper conditions, the plants can outcompete the algae for the nutrients. Ammonia must be kept low, and the lighting, CO2, and other nutrients must be kept in balance.

 

[Bignose]

have you ever seen JET black sand in nature?

there are black sand beaches... http/listphobia.com/wp-content/uploads/111609_0844_10MostBeaut9.jpg

Google has many more in its image library.

 

[Ben M]

I don't think stagnant water is causing algae, there is always some flow keeping the water mixed

It is known that if you have areas in your tank with no flow you can get a build up of detritus, which will cause algae. As for the playsand, I use it in my 210l and 120l tanks, and have never had any issues with algae or fish dying. Playsand is totally safe, but make sure you give it a good wash before using it, as it can be a bit dusty.

 

[ian]

Here's an interesting read fishguy2727, these people in this thread are mainly botanists and botanical scientists. I will link the thread as there isn't any info on here regarding this...

http/www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/3347-Does-too-much-phosphate-cause-algae

there is also some good scientific research within the thread.

 

[fishguy2727]

I am not saying play sand hasn't worked for lots of people, obviously it has. But some people have had issues with it that can be avoided. If someone is buying new sand and there is something just as cheap and even safer then why not go for that?

The OP specified black sand, so play vs. pool sand is pointless. I shared the sand that I know comes in black and should be a good option.

 

[WittLace]

Thanks all! Now I know a little bit more about plants and algae too

And yes black sand can be found in nature.

I am glad to know about a few different types and the ones that will not mess with chemistry levels.

Thanks for the trecommendations!

 

[Ben M]

most sands are inert (including playsand) so don't alter water parameters.