What Kind Of Sand?

[WittLace]

I have a 29gal tank up and running. After learning about cycling on here the fish in cycle has been completed for a while now. The current tank has gravel and that is what I have used in the past. I have a few Kribs and now have an established pair . I need to get them into their own tank pronto. This tank is not big enough for all of them, especially when they are trying to breed.

I want to set up the new tank with sand and have been doing some reading. I have looked at the LFS and they dont have much. The have "cichlid formula" sand which is fairly pricey. I have also read about play sand and other hardware type sand. Needless to say I am confused. I want black sand. Any recommendations or suggestions about what I should look for??? Thanks in advance!

 

[Ben M]

I think black sand is going to be quite pricey. You can get normal sand really cheap (I use playsand from B&Q or Argos etc.). You can get Tahitian moon sand http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/addtobasket.asp?skid=4428 but I'm not sure if it is really small gravel.

cheers

 

[WittLace]

Thanks! Really small gravel would be ok as well.

 

[Aqua Tom]

My first choice was black sand but it is stupidly expensive. In the end I went with playsand, best decision I have made whilst fishkeeping.

 

[fishguy2727]

I only use and recommend Estes' Ultra Reef (it will not alter any chemistry). If it is available this may be a good option. It tends to run about $1 per pound here (even found it online shipped). For something is important as the substrate, and with a tank this small, it is more than worth it. It does come in black, white, beige, and a couple unnatural colors. I use either solid black or mix the black and white.

 

[raptorrex]

I only use and recommend Estes' Ultra Reef (it will not alter any chemistry). If it is available this may be a good option. It tends to run about $1 per pound here (even found it online shipped). For something is important as the substrate, and with a tank this small, it is more than worth it. It does come in black, white, beige, and a couple unnatural colors. I use either solid black or mix the black and white.

oddly, PLAYSAND does not alter you chemistry either. sand costs, roughly, $7 for 15kg(30lb+) true, it does not have the range of colours. but who cares? have you ever seen JET black sand in nature?

as for there being something, better about 'branded' aquarium sand? not in this case. PLAYSAND is every bit as good and safe. and it cost peanuts, in comparison.

I understand you believe that your ULTRA reef is better/safer. but ITS NOT. cant put it plainer than that.

 

[fishguy2727]

Have you used it?

Honestly I think a completely different colored substrate absolutely makes a huge difference in the look of a tank. I think the black and white mixed looks best. It hides anything that may land on it, and looks natural (as noted by many people who have seen my tank in person or in pics).

If you want to go with a cheapo sand DO NOT use play sand. Use pool filter sand. Play sand is not made to be used in water and has a range of sizes in each bag. This is what can contribute to many of the problems commonly associated with sand in general (compaction, cloudiness, toxic gas pockets, etc.). Pool filter sand is very uniform in size (as is the one I mentioned). This allows for a healthier sand bed with much less risk. It also runs about the same price as play sand, so you are still going cheap.

Silica based cheapo sands can cause brown algae problems because they can increase the silicate concentration. I have talked to a few people who used cheapo sands and immediately started having brown algae problems that no matter what they tried did not go away until the took the sand back out (at which point htere was an immediate change in the brown algae).

There are many options out there, some are safer than others. I personally don't see the point in going with a cheapo sand to save a few bucks when they may not be as safe. If you are into this hobby to save money you picked the wrong hobby. Color alone is worth going with a sand that is actually made for use in aquariums.

 

[BigbruiserAl]

I dont really get into these sort of debates but i have to say you have no idea what your talking about. Playsand IS safe for fishtanks(argos,hombase, B&Q) Is been safe in my 350L rio is been safe in mu Aqua One 220L, its been safe in my Jewl 70L and it been safe with my 60L shrimp tank

 

[StandbySetting]

What risk is there with compaction and the supposed toxic gas pockets? Apply the actual chemistry, the toxic gas is Hydrogen Sulfide, if disturbed it is oxidized on contact with oxygen, which is present in our tanks:

2H[sub]2[/sub]S + 3O[sub]2[/sub] > 2SO[sub]2[/sub] + 2H[sub]2[/sub]0

As long as the play sand is new, and is in a sealed container there is no reason why it should not be used providing it is silica sand, it is formulated for children so isn't likely to contain any nasty chemicals etc, there are too many people on here that have used it for it to be deemed unsafe, you just have to buy it from a reputable source in a sealed container.

The whole brown algae issue is a widely debated one also, silicates don't cause algae, they are uptaken to harden the outer cell wall of the diatom, ammonia is the sole cause of diatoms, if what you were saying was true my tank currently would be plagued, it has had high light from the off and I used play sand.

 

[raptorrex]

Have you used it?

Honestly I think a completely different colored substrate absolutely makes a huge difference in the look of a tank. I think the black and white mixed looks best. It hides anything that may land on it, and looks natural (as noted by many people who have seen my tank in person or in pics).

If you want to go with a cheapo sand DO NOT use play sand. Use pool filter sand. Play sand is not made to be used in water and has a range of sizes in each bag. This is what can contribute to many of the problems commonly associated with sand in general (compaction, cloudiness, toxic gas pockets, etc.). Pool filter sand is very uniform in size (as is the one I mentioned). This allows for a healthier sand bed with much less risk. It also runs about the same price as play sand, so you are still going cheap.

Silica based cheapo sands can cause brown algae problems because they can increase the silicate concentration. I have talked to a few people who used cheapo sands and immediately started having brown algae problems that no matter what they tried did not go away until the took the sand back out (at which point htere was an immediate change in the brown algae).

There are many options out there, some are safer than others. I personally don't see the point in going with a cheapo sand to save a few bucks when they may not be as safe. If you are into this hobby to save money you picked the wrong hobby. Color alone is worth going with a sand that is actually made for use in aquariums.

as i stated in my post PLAYSAND may well save a few bucks. but its safe too, totally. you advice is against the experience of this forum, .

PLAYSAND is totally safe for use in an aquarium. as good, some say better, than any propitiatory brand.

you mention gas pockets. which points to your lack of experience and knowledge on the subject. gas pockets do form. however they are totally safe, both to fish and plants. and if you don't disturb the sand, too far down, it does not show its, safe, face.

you mention brown algae, can you find any mention of it here, in a tank with playsand? answer, NO or not caused by the sand.

cloudy water, eerr no not a bit of it. water as clear as a mirror. (after the initial cloud from putting the stuff in.

PLAYSAND is inert, it has to be to be child safe!.

as for grain size, just what has that got to do with anything? the grains are too small to see anyway.

i understand you have your view. but you will need to back it up with more than ,you have so far. because nothing you have said, has any relevance.

once again, to all. PLAYSAND IS TOTALLY SAFE FOR AQUARIUM USE. planted and un-planted.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I used it.

 

[fishguy2727]

That is fine. I guess the people I have talked to who disturbed gas pockets and watched their fish subsequently die were on drugs. As were the people who added sand, got massive brown algae outbreaks, and then the algae went away when they took the sand out.

Ammonia doesn't cause algae, nitrate and phosphate do. Other factors effect which algae will be favored, silicates favor brown algae.

In these situations people are stuck on what they believe. Someone could come on here and say this happened to their tank and people would harass them until they gave up. The group decides that those experiences are wrong or mistaken and there is no way to prove the group wrong. Then the group is even more convinced of their opinion.

You can still go cheap with pool filter sand. On every other forum I am on that has been the consensus as the safest and best option for cheap sand.

I have shared my opinion and experience. Buy sand that is made for aquariums, especially if you want something besides light tan. I hate light tank sand, it looks cheap. I prefer black and white mixed. I found a particular brand that works great for me and my fish. I share that experience with others, apparently that is not what I am supposed to do on a forum.

 

[StandbySetting]

Ammonia doesn't cause algae, nitrate and phosphate do. Other factors effect which algae will be favored, silicates favor brown algae.

This is incorrect, it is a common misconception, I don't know whether it was you or two tank amine it was discussed with but if I find the thread I'll post it here, I don't have time to copy what I wrote in that thread.

 

[fishguy2727]

Which part is incorrect?

 

[StandbySetting]

The Nitrate and Phosphate causing algae part, if it were true then those including myself who run planted set ups would be plagued with algae, and we're not:

Both phosphate and nitrate can and do cause algae. The thing is just isn't because they are present in the aquarium but rather it is when excess phosphate and/or nitrate is present that algae issues arise.

Nitrate and Phosphate have never caused algae, the theory that they do is a long debated issue, they will however accelerate its growth, I bet if you ask Tom Barr now he'll concur, Nitrate and Phosphate are always in an excess in my set up, the same applies to anyone dosing EI, whereby the aim is to keep nutrients at levels so that they're non-limiting, here's my tank, Phosphate at 2PPM, Nitrate at 40PPM (calculated not tested, test kits are not accurate enough) EDIT, just tested, registering at 40PPM on my Salifert test kit and no algae:

Head over to a planted forum and take a look, most set ups where ferts are added contain no algae.
A lack of nutrients is likely to cause algae however, as well as fluctuating or non-existent CO2 and ammonia.

For those of a more scientific bent, or those trying to troubleshoot a specific problem, it is definitely worth buying good-quality test kits for phosphate and nitrate. Beware of inexpensive test kits, however. In many cases you get what you pay for, and inaccurate measurements can be worse than none at all if you base decisions on them. Nitrate levels in a low-light tank can often be as high as 20 milligrams per liter (mg/L) without causing algae problems, while phosphate can sometimes be as high as 2 mg/L under the same conditions without causing algae problems. In a well-lit tank, nitrate usually begins to be a problem if it approaches 10 mg/L, while phosphate can be troublesome even at 0.5 mg/L

http/bobstropicalplants.com/Chuck/nov1997.html

This was published in 1997, aquascaping has come a long way since then and it's only in the past few years that the 'nitrate and phosphate cause algae' argument has been put to bed, the reasoning is stupid also, the general consensus is that this lake has algae, this lake also has nitrate and phosphate present, oh this must be the cause which simply isn't the case, even anecdotal evidence in this case is valid in my opinion, it simply disproves all of these hypotheses about the causes of algae being nitrate and phosphate. Out of Aquatic plants and Algae, Algae is the more adaptable, which is why this statement doesn't make sense either:

The trick is to provide enough of all nutrients to satisfy the needs of the higher plants, while limiting excess nutrients that could feed unwanted algae.

If you wish to see the image that isn't there, head over to my journal.