What Has Happened?

[Paradise3]

I started off with 7 home bred females and 1 home bred male. I lost my home bred male first, he suddenly became very lethargic and slow. Then i kept losing home bred females to the same symptoms. So i was left with 3 home bred females. My first fish added to the tank when they stopped dying for about 3 weeks were 4 oto's and 2 Threadfin rainbowfish. I watched the ammonia and other water chemistry very well after because i knew that was quite alot of fish in 1 go. They stayed stable and the tank was thriving again. So after 2 weeks i added 2 more Threadfin rainbowfish and 1 male guppy. Then 1 oto died for no apparent reason. About 2-3 weeks after the oto died i added 2 dwarf neon rainbowfish and 1 female guppy. After that the shop bought male guppy has died and 2 home bred females have died. So the stocking today is:
2x Female guppies(1 shop bought, 1 home bred)
3x Otocinclus
4x Threadfin rainbowfish
2x Dwarf neon rainbowfish

The symptoms are as follows.
Home bred male guppy - Lethargic, slow, resting on the bottom alot.
First 4 home bred females - Same as above.
Oto - None.
Latest home bred females - Clamped fins, white dusty appearance.

Any ideas?

Alessa x.

 

[mattlee]

some otos dont last long and some thrive its 50/50 really on what you get. people say its to do with the way they are caught in the wild. apparently they add syanide or some kind of poison up stream from where the otos are to knock them out cold so they fall off the wood etc that they will be eating from and scooped up in a net
so the oto just may have been 1 of the unlucky ones that was never going to make it anyway.....

but as a few others have died too and some now are clamped and not looking well/right i may be looking at this part to do with its death.....

 

[Paradise3]

Well now all the fish look healthy except my last home bred female. It seems to be my home bred ones that are dying with symptoms! My shop bought male just died. I'm worried for my last home bred female..... She's the only one remaining from my beloved midnight who died after a bad birth.

Alessa x.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

what are your stats for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

 

[Paradise3]

Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
Nitrate - 20ppm
PH - 6.4
They are always the same...

Alessa x.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

not to doubt you Alessa but when you say the results are always the same - have you re-tested them since the deaths or just assuming they are the same as they usually are? sometimes it's easy to get caught out by assumptions.

the pH is quite low though, I'm not a particular expert on any of the fish you mention but there are plenty of species would struggle at that pH so worth doing a little background reading and check that as well.

 

[Paradise3]

I test at least once a week but since the first death i have tested twice a week every week. The guppies could do with a higher PH but they have always lived fine until that first death of the home bred male. My home bred ones were raised in that PH which is why i'm certain it's not the PH that killed them.

Alessa x.

 

[kizno1]

I test at least once a week but since the first death i have tested twice a week every week. The guppies could do with a higher PH but they have always lived fine until that first death of the home bred male. My home bred ones were raised in that PH which is why i'm certain it's not the PH that killed them.

Alessa x.

I think rainbowfish prefer higher PH as well about 7.5+ i think but don't quote me on that. I would get rid of the dwarf neons as soon as you can because the tanks really not big enough and they need to be in groups. Have you noticed any white or stringy poo? could be internal bacteria.

 

[Paradise3]

No white stringy poo and the dwarfs will get about as big as my female guppy(shop bought)
Like i said i listed the symptoms in the first post.
I know people will say the tank isn't big enough but the dwarfs really are doing fine. Basically i've been going to a closer LFS. They used to be famous for selling bad fish, but they now have someone who really knows what they are doing. The fish i buy from there are all still alive and thriving but the home bred ones are dying. When i went for a fish that would be centre piece(when i got the dwarfs) i noticed a German ram. I said what about that one and his answer was "A. they are very sensitive to water chemistry and B. It may eat your guppies/ become territorial" This is what i call an improvement. The old guy would have gone "Brilliant choice and you can probably have more than one" The new guy helped pick the dwarfs, after he asked about tank size, inhabitants and water chemistry. I was going to get some honey gouramis but once again they could become territorial.

Alessa x.

 

[kizno1]

No white stringy poo and the dwarfs will get about as big as my female guppy(shop bought)
Like i said i listed the symptoms in the first post.
I know people will say the tank isn't big enough but the dwarfs really are doing fine. Basically i've been going to a closer LFS. They used to be famous for selling bad fish, but they now have someone who really knows what they are doing. The fish i buy from there are all still alive and thriving but the home bred ones are dying. When i went for a fish that would be centre piece(when i got the dwarfs) i noticed a German ram. I said what about that one and his answer was "A. they are very sensitive to water chemistry and B. It may eat your guppies/ become territorial" This is what i call an improvement. The old guy would have gone "Brilliant choice and you can probably have more than one" The new guy helped pick the dwarfs, after he asked about tank size, inhabitants and water chemistry. I was going to get some honey gouramis but once again they could become territorial.

Alessa x.

They get 3" which yeah is about the same size as a fully grown female guppy but there alot more active and NEED to be in groups of 4+. I honestly think you would be better of taking them back and swaping them for 2-3 more threadfins because they will do better in a bigger group.

 

[Paradise3]

The shop i got them from doesn't swap and you can't return them. Me, my mum and the guy who served me all talked to the manager about changing it so people could swap the fish if they want, but he said he wasn't changing it and that if people bought certain fish they were keeping them fish.
We went and talked to him together and all got the same answer. If i could take them back i would but i can't. I could take them to my other LFS but whether they would last the 30-40 minute journey on 2 different buses i don't know. Plus i wouldn't have much choice at my other LFS because they don't sell Threadfin rainbowfish.

Alessa x.

 

[Sami9999]

I am no expert as I am new to keeping guppies, however, I had a similar problem with my guppies dying. I found out that sometime right before my getting the guppies my local water company switched from hard to soft water. Part of why I chose guppies was due to the fact that I had hard water. Long story short my water came out of the tap with a ph of 6.2 and a kh and gh of 0. With such a low ph I would assume you have soft water also. I got some kent ro right and raised my gh and my guppies stopped dying. It might be worth checking your gh as guppies prefer hard water.

 

[Paradise3]

I know they prefer hard water but why have they lived in this water since being born then? And why has the shop bought female survived?
It's just D*** right weird!

Alessa x.

 

[fluttermoth]

It could be that the parents were related and that the inbreeding has caused your babies to have some sort of inherited weakness.

 

[Paradise3]

That's the thing. I asked the LFS if the parents were related..... They said they were not related so i got them. The male was a pure neon yellow mosaic and the female was a drab black delta. Oh and my male dwarf rainbowfish was dead this morning with no apparent affects so my mum has said we just have to wait and see what happens after i put the remaining few back in the tank. I've cleaned it out to see if it changes anything but if they all die, i'm going to clean and cycle the tank and get different fish. Any suggestions? It's not looking good so just in case. I want a male betta for it so what other fish could go with him? Except neon tetras! It's a 2ft 12gallon tank btw. Could i have the threadfins with him if they survive? So far they are the strongest!

Alessa x.