What Happened To My Fish?

[veronica26]

We started up a new aquarium recently. We started with 5 zebra danios, but apparently we didn't wait for it to fully cycle before we added three platies (oops). The platies seemed to come down with ich not long after we got them, so we have been treating them for that. After a couple of days of treatment, the spots were going away and they seemed much happier. Then suddenly, yesterday morning they all looked much worse, and this morning two were dead. The third died this afternoon. They were covered in white spots, had ragged fins and weren't eating, generally acting stressed. Only one danio seems to be showing signs of the ich, so we will continue treating the tank, but other than that the danios seem pretty happy, except that one got eaten by the filter.

We feel awful that we've killed so many of our fish, and we have an idea of what we did wrong. What I want to know is: what finished those platies off? Is there anything we could have done for them?

 

[Corleone]

Simply put, the water quality declined and became toxic. Since you didn't do a fishless cycle first, or monitor and control water quality after getting the danios, the water likely had high ammonia levels when you got your platys. Fish introduced into poor water quality often are stressed worse than the ones that were in it while it declined, and this stress leads to weakened defenses. Ich (whitespot), finrot (the ragged fins), not eating, and abnormal behavior are common symptoms, and in the process of a cycle, fish often don't seem to respond to treatment because you either dilute medicine with water changes necessary to control water stats, or those stats become even higher and weaken the fish further than the medicines can help. I'll also note at this point that it's exceedingly rare for fish to get eaten by filters. Even my monster filter, danios will play and weak swimming fish like corydoras and angelfish will sit near the intake without being pulled in. Fish that do get pulled into filters are usually dead or ill when it happens, and the filter isn't the cause of death (like falling off the building and then being hit by a car).

With new tank syndrome, it can be hard to impossible to be sure what really finished off a fish. My philosophy is, if the tank isn't cycled, it doesn't matter - ammonia or nitrite in the water is almost certainly the root cause.

Anyway, this is an unfortunate and frustrating way to get into the hobby, and my tale of gloom and doom probably didn't help, but thankfully the solution isn't that difficult. You'll need a liquid based test kit that tests for ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte (be careful with your I's and A's, these two are hard to tell apart, even for some of the experienced people, but the distinction is critical, as explained in articles I'll link below), and pH. There are strip tests, some of which also cover some other stats, but these are inaccurate, unreliable, and expensive - usually ~$15 to cover the important stats in the US, which will give you 25 sets of strips. The liquid kits run $20-30, but give literally hundreds of tests.

Once you have your test kit, you'll want to proceed as detailed in this thread:
http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

If, for any reason, your remaining fish die, don't replace the ones you lose until the tank is stable. If they all die, I advise switching to a fishless cycle, which will mature the tank without fish present. Since you've started with fish, it won't take the full time, and at the end of it, you'll be in a position to have many more fish much healthier than right now:
http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...shless-Cycling/

 

[veronica26]

Maybe the danio was dead when he got sucked into the filter, I don't know, but it wasn't the first time he ended up in there. He was squished in under the motor, though, and couldn't move, so I think that was what did it. We had our water tested when the platies first started looking unhappy, and there were nitrites. We were doing about 25% water change and adding the ich medication every day, so I thought that would both control the water quality and treat the ich. Why did the platies seem so much better, but then suddenly go downhill and die?
Anyway, we won't be adding anymore fish anytime soon, until we're sure we have the cycle under control. Finding all these dead fish is pretty traumatic!

 

[Corleone]

You should test yourself, rather than having your water tested. There's a lot of reasons - some pet shops will tell you bad water is "fine," or they'll say water is fine when it's not immediately problematic (for example, low nitrite, around 0.25 ppm, isn't immediately harmful, but indicates the possible presence of ammonia as well, both of which are a sign of an uncycled tank, and harmful if not attended to). It's also important to track trends while you're doing water changes, to know what part of the cycle your at and if your measures are enough. There's also a chance any time you add fish to a tank after the cycle that the process will happen again on a small scale, and it's important to monitor water stats for several days after every addition. Detailed and current water stats, as well as the ability to obtain them at any sign of trouble, is the most powerful tool in a fishkeeper's arsenal. The kit, your gravel vac, and your water change bucket can work miracles sometimes.

If the danios are actually getting inside the filter, what kind of intake does it have? You might have to find a plastic screen (or a finer screen than you currently have) to fit over it, or add a piece of sponge or nylon at the end of the intake to prevent them from slipping through. What I said about healthy fish not ending up in the filter does have a caveat - fish will often investigate any nook they can fit through, so it's important that they can't swim into the intake on their own.

The platys seeming fine and then going downhill suddenly is pretty standard new tank syndrome. Others have reported the same results, sometimes after stopping daily water changes when the original symptoms clear up. Other times more subtle symptoms may have been overlooked during the "good" period, and the fish's condition deteriorated quickly when the new problem worsens due to stress in the cycle and the previous illness, or simply a more virulent disease struck them with very little warning. NTS is a mess - virtually every aquarium disorder is much more likely in a cycling tank, and some are almost unheard of outside of situations involving poor water quality.

 

[LauraFrog]

If you've got problems with fish being sucked up the filter intake, try putting a piece of pantyhose over it and fastening it there with a cable tie. This way even small fry will be kept out of the filter.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, it can take a long time before a new tank is ready for fish. You're in good hands with Corleone to get you on the road to recovery.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[veronica26]

We put a piece of fishnet over the filter intake, but it was covered in gunk, and we thought the fish were big enough now that it wouldn't matter. Apparently one of them was still too small. If we cover it again, should we just rinse it out every week? Won't it prevent the filter from working as well?

 

[Corleone]

Rinse it every week or so - it will get clogged up fairly quickly compared to the normal plastic intake cage. Nylon or net won't make much difference in how well the filter runs, it'll just make the mechanical stage of filtration happen in a more visible spot than usual.

 

[Brette]

Is there anything we could have done for them?

I know how you feel. I killed 10 fish a little over a week ago in my new tank.

What i learned is:

1. to have a small sick tank where you can remove the sick ones to treat them. It should have a small filter and heater. This can run you about 30 bucks total if you're in the USA or Canada.

2. to have medication that covers the basic illness fish get. For me this was Maracyn (for bacterial infections) and Maracide (for parasites, ich and velvet). These are both available in Canada and the USA

3. to let the tank cycle for far longer than I thought and to not overclean.

4. I was lucky to have been able to get mature filter media from another tank to help with the cycling this time. It was packed with the good bacteria the aquarium needs to keep down amonia and nitrites.

We can all wallow in our guilt together. Killing fish is no fun! But I hope you get some new ones and things go well.

 

[matchstickman47]

make sure that any water you add in is the right temperature because water that is to cold can cause ich,
its a learning curve when fish die i was so upset when my first tetra died dont worry thought youl get it sorted

 

[MattM1124]

We started up a new aquarium recently. We started with 5 zebra danios, but apparently we didn't wait for it to fully cycle before we added three platies (oops). The platies seemed to come down with ich not long after we got them, so we have been treating them for that. After a couple of days of treatment, the spots were going away and they seemed much happier. Then suddenly, yesterday morning they all looked much worse, and this morning two were dead. The third died this afternoon. They were covered in white spots, had ragged fins and weren't eating, generally acting stressed. Only one danio seems to be showing signs of the ich, so we will continue treating the tank, but other than that the danios seem pretty happy, except that one got eaten by the filter.

We feel awful that we've killed so many of our fish, and we have an idea of what we did wrong. What I want to know is: what finished those platies off? Is there anything we could have done for them?

Hey Veronica!

I know what you're going through, trust me! I first got fish maybe a year and a half ago and didn't know anything about fishless cycling so of course my fish didn't last very long. After that happened I got into these forums and learned all about fishless cycling and other things. I did the fishless cycling, adding in the ammonia myself and after a bout a month, my tank was cycled and I added fish. My tank has been fine for the most part, the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates are all in order and my bacteria is well enough to do it's job. My fish did however have ich soon after getting them because I got them all at the same time and who knows what's in the water at the LFS. I got that malachite green stuff and started adding it in every other day and in between the dosing, I did a partial water change. Make sure you continue to dose the tank for about a week after you see the last white spot come off of the fish. You do this because even after the spots fall off, it takes a day or so for them to hatch and the medicine only kills the parasite after it hatches. All of my fish made it through the meds and I was happy.

Don't get discouraged though, like previously stated, this is a learning process and unfortunately too many LFS give people wrong information. When I first got fish, they told me to just add water and let it sit for a day or so and then add fish. They just don't know. I have found this site very helpful and I'm sure you will too!

 

[Tolak]

make sure that any water you add in is the right temperature because water that is to cold can cause ich

Besides the fact that the OP has not been on this site in 6 weeks, cold water does not cause an infestation of parasites. Exposure plus a weakened immune system will.