What Do People Use As Feeder Fish/shrimp?

[shroob]

In the UK, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 prohibits deliberate and “unnecessary suffering” to animals, but contrary to widespread belief, it does not explicitly outlaw the feeding of live feeder fish to other fish. - Taken from wikipedia.

There was a post not too long ago in the Predatory section of this forum, where the RSPCA said the use of live fish as feeders wasn't illegal, as long as they were advertised as such and another search got this email responce from the RSPCA:

Thank you for your enquiry. We are not aware of there being any legal constraints on feeding fish to other live fish or any animal. There is also no legislation that specifically allows the use of certain fish to feed certain other fish. However, there is clear evidence that fish are sentient, so such action could potentially be an offence under the Protection of Animals Act 1911 if a vet agreed that unnecessary suffering had been caused by such actions. The difficulty would therefore arise when trying to prove suffering had intentionally been caused. For example, piranhas (depending on the species) will scavenge fish scales off live fish, take dead or meat sinking through the water or if hungry enough could attack live fish. However, piranhas do not require the offering of live fish in captivity to trigger feeding, as feeding can also be triggered by dead meat/fish being dropped into their water tank. Another issue that could have an impact on the welfare of the piranha's and the fish being added for food, is the taking of fish from one water environment to then release straight into water of a different water environment. It is widely recognised that such practice can shock the fish and could even be fatal. I hope this information is helpful for you and thank you again for contacting us. Kind regards RSPCA Enquiries Service

Theres also a long thread about it on PFK's forum:
[URL="http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/foru...ighlight=feeder"]http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/foru...ighlight=feeder[/URL]

I'm not condoning the use of feeder fish, I personally don't use them but I can see the reasons why others do, in some rare situations its the only option available, and part of the process of getting fish onto dead foods.

EDIT: I don't want this thread to go off topic, so I'll get back to the original point of saying its unlikely that whoever buys your shrimp will use them as feeders - not impossible but I think unlikely due to the cost.

 

[jonny_dw]

Yes I understand your points Shroob which is why I said I couldnt see it standing up in court really although I personally would see it as an offence.

I think in some cases though you will find it very difficult to ween some fish onto dead food, for example a freshwater barracuda are suposed to be very difficult to get onto dead food but in my opinion any predatory fish can be weened onto dead food, they wont starve themselves, it just takes time and patience.

Anyway your right this kind of topic has been discussed many times so back onto topic, I think its possible some people will buy them for feeders but I agree with Shroob that its not very likely.

 

[saz326]

Great info coming out here. Thanks.

When I worked in a small aquarium & reptile house on my work experience they always used frozen chicks and fish to feed the inhabitants. The feeding of live animals to other animals is certainly not allowed inside zoos, ..I guess the fish side of the equasion is not so much written in stone. I guess it depends how "matter of fact" the feeding is. i.e. not teasing the fish involved.

We often feed crustaceans (spelling?) like brine shrimp and daphnia to our fish without flinching, and live crickets etc can be bought to feed snakes and lizards... so maybe its a size and speed of death thing. s. I.e we would feed daphnia and brine shrimp to an aquarium fish, but wouldnt feed a live zebra to a lion due to the chase and terror caused before death.

I also cant understand why cherry shrimp are so expensive to buy. The are prolific breeders and incrediably easy to transport - so where does the cost get validated?

I heard of "river shrimp" being used as feeders..... think these are marine. Is that why they are cheaper?

edit: thats a different topic I guess.. Have left it in but dont worry about answering it if it seem a bit distant from the original question.

 

[shroob]

I also cant understand why cherry shrimp are so expensive to buy. The are prolific breeders and incrediably easy to transport - so where does the cost get validated?

I heard of "river shrimp" being used as feeders..... think these are marine. Is that why they are cheaper?

Yeah cherry shrimp should be cheaper, but supply and demand sets the price. The shrimp scene is fairly new I would say in the UK, especially compared to germany or even the states so thats why the prices are higher. Suluwasi shrimp are the 'next big thing' in the shrimp world now, demanding high prices , in a year or so when more people are breeding them (as I understand they arn't that hard to breed) then prices will drop - and I will get some . Same with blue tiger shrimp, easy to breed but just not available in the UK, most are imported from Germany. I did see some on ebay - £60 for 6 shrimp, 3 blue + 3 blonde, given time prices will drop but until then its a case of supply and demand.

I don't think river shrimp are marine, its another LFS name for ghost/glass shrimp which inhabit freshwater lakes of the southern USA. Little profile on them here. I would hazard a guess to why they are so cheap is because they arn't bred but farmed/collected from the wild in large numbers.

 

[jonny_dw]

We often feed crustaceans (spelling?) like brine shrimp and daphnia to our fish without flinching, and live crickets etc can be bought to feed snakes and lizards... so maybe its a size and speed of death thing. s. I.e we would feed daphnia and brine shrimp to an aquarium fish, but wouldnt feed a live zebra to a lion due to the chase and terror caused before death.

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but daphnia and brine shrimp etc arent vertebrates so it doesnt apply to them with regards to live feeding.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I don't think river shrimp are marine, its another LFS name for ghost/glass shrimp which inhabit freshwater lakes of the southern USA. Little profile on them here. I would hazard a guess to why they are so cheap is because they arn't bred but farmed/collected from the wild in large numbers.

I believe they are saltwater, or at least high-end brackish- Maidenhead Aquatics keeps them in a tank plumbed into the marine system, and Aqualife kept theirs in the coral tanks. I think they're dredged up from estuaries and the like.

 

[shroob]

I don't think river shrimp are marine, its another LFS name for ghost/glass shrimp which inhabit freshwater lakes of the southern USA. Little profile on them here. I would hazard a guess to why they are so cheap is because they arn't bred but farmed/collected from the wild in large numbers.

I believe they are saltwater, or at least high-end brackish- Maidenhead Aquatics keeps them in a tank plumbed into the marine system, and Aqualife kept theirs in the coral tanks. I think they're dredged up from estuaries and the like.

I thought that too (I thought they were brackish/esturies), but in the link it says 'primarily found in FW lakes', surprised me. Petshrimp also has them as FW. That is if we're talking about glass/ghost shrimp 'Palaemonetes paludosus'.

On LiveAquaria it lists them as being 'farm raised' and a freshwater species.

 

[saz326]

Someone correct me if Im wrong, but daphnia and brine shrimp etc arent vertebrates so it doesnt apply to them with regards to live feeding.

I kinda hope that isnt the case - else squid and some sharks would be on the menu.

I believe they are saltwater, or at least high-end brackish- Maidenhead Aquatics keeps them in a tank plumbed into the marine system, and Aqualife kept theirs in the coral tanks. I think they're dredged up from estuaries and the like.

That would make sence from the bits I have read. Think Shroob may have seen a different type of river shrimp (but thanks for looking shroob) Not yet seen a full article.

Thanks all.

 

[raptorrex]

Gonna be raising shrimp to the stage that my fish are too small to eat them, but this made me think. If I bred shrimp, would people buy them as feeders?

Am I right that people use neons, guppies, endlers as feeder fish?

yes they do but most people on this forum think it is wrong!

That's a pretty big assumption to make!

poor truck has done an Edwina Curry, if you had said "many" not most. your comments could not have been objected too.
taken from an article in PFK

The use of feeder-fish is relatively common in the US, but virtually unheard of in the UK where the practise is condemned by most fishkeeping groups.

Practical Fishkeeping always advises against the use of feeder fish. The majority of fish species receive no health benefits from consuming live fish, and the use of feeder fish has been implicated as a cause of disease transfer.

i dont know why people use feeders!!! they contain no nutrition whatsoever!!!

Of course they do. If they didn't, people wouldn't eat fish either.

but it does seem even those who do feed live fish, see they are not that nutritious, or why would they need gutfilled? i agree Truck made a sweeping statement, but his error seems based in terminology not in understanding.

 

[Inchworm]

but it does seem even those who do feed live fish, see they are not that nutritious, or why would they need gutfilled? i agree Truck made a sweeping statement, but his error seems based in terminology not in understanding.

Let's not nitpick about language here. I doubt that all the people who use feeders gutfill them either, but it might be a good idea. Why don't you explain something about that to help the members learn something and to forward the thread in a positive way?

 

[raptorrex]

but it does seem even those who do feed live fish, see they are not that nutritious, or why would they need gutfilled? i agree Truck made a sweeping statement, but his error seems based in terminology not in understanding.

Let's not nitpick about language here. I doubt that all the people who use feeders gutfill them either, but it might be a good idea. Why don't you explain something about that to help the members learn something and to forward the thread in a positive way?

taken from this thread. comments suggesting many people, not only, do gutfill/gutload but you need to if you are serious about feeding feeders.

Anyone serious about the well being of their fish that feeds with feeders will first gutload the feeders with a decent flake or dry food prior to offering them. Thus the predator gets all the benefit of the fish and the flakes. I myself used to gutload shrimp before offering them to my frogfish when I had two that wouldn't take dead.

if you need to add food, to the feeder, to make it worth while. it stands to reason that the fish, on their own, are not that nutritious. or, more probably, not nutritious enough.

 

[Inchworm]

Interesting, boboboy.

Now let's get the thread back on track. The original question was about shrimp:

Gonna be raising shrimp to the stage that my fish are too small to eat them, but this made me think. If I bred shrimp, would people buy them as feeders?

Am I right that people use neons, guppies, endlers as feeder fish?

 

[saz326]

Oh Inchworm - you know this forum too well. Its all about veering of sideways.

 

[Inchworm]

Oh Inchworm - you know this forum too well. Its all about veering of sideways.

Unfortunately, it's been happening all to often lately and posts have been tending to get hostile. It spoils the fun for everyone who reads through it. As long as things stay friendly, we don't mind a little digression unless the whole thread gets derailed. That's not fair to the member who started it.

 

[andrewshd]

I think the issue of legality of feeder fish in the UK has been raised a number of times on this forum, and the conclusion is its a grey area of the law, and not technically illegal - but don't quote me on it.

Im a police officer and I would class feeding live fish as an offence under the animal welfare act for the point I highlighted. I couldnt see it standing in court very well to be honest but none the less myself and other officers Ive spoken to about the subject would also see it as an offence, not that we get many calls about a neighbour feeding neons to a wolfish

How is it an offence to Animal Welfare, surely then all Uk citizens eating meat and all game shooters/ huntsmen would be making an offence and idont see them being brought before the law courts.