What do our fish think we are?

[TwoTankAmin]

Well let's think about this for a minute. Forget us, forget the tank and just think about the fish. Exactly what does the life of a fish involve?

The first and most important thing a fish must learn is how not to become food. There is no life once inside the stomach of something else. So fish "learn to hide, to run, to school or to fight depending on the species and the situation.

The second thing that occupies most fish is food. Surviving predators only goes so far if you cannot find food. So food may even ciome before survivial. Fish learn where to find food as they age. So it is easy for us to understand why, given time, fish will learn to assume their feeding positions when they believe it is likely dinner time. One of the more neat things we can do is to have fish which will accept hand feeding. If you have done this then you know that it usually takes a few tries before the fish will approach the food in your hand with less trepidation.

The third thing that motivates fish is reproduction. Fish naturally want to spawn. And they will usually do so in tanks as long as we do not do things which discourage this.

Next, when we talk about recognition it may not mean the same thing to a fish. But if we consider the process- a large something approaches the tank, our footsteps cause vibrations and our form may just be a huge blob as opposed to something with recognizable features. And then we lift the lid which means our hand/arm is above the water surface. We are providing lots of cues for the fish.

Finally, most of us tend to feed once a day on average. We also tend to do so at the same time range every day. So, the light conditions in the room/tank may matter? Many of my fish will assume their feeding positions in error several times a day. How "smart" are they really, But we also know that most fish in the wild may not eat as regularly as we feed in tanks. Fish are most likely hard wired to some extent to know where to find food or to learn this.

Finally, I believe that fish can learn to a certain extent and that this is connected to survival. New fish in a new tank do not come to the surface when we approach a tank, In fact, feeding often causes them to hide/run at first. But over time they "learn" there are no predators in the tank and then where and when the food seems to become available.

If you are unfaliar with the Pavlov's dog,

What is Pavlov's dog theory?

Classical conditioning is learning through association and was first demonstrated by Ivan Pavlov. Pavlov showed that dogs could be conditioned to salivate at the sound of a bell if that sound was repeatedly presented at the same time that they were given food.

from https://simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html

As a psych major I had to do the classical conditioning experiment but with rats, not fish.

 

[gwand]

Well let's think about this for a minute. Forget us, forget the tank and just think about the fish. Exactly what does the life of a fish involve?

The first and most important thing a fish must learn is how not to become food. There is no life once inside the stomach of something else. So fish "learn to hide, to run, to school or to fight depending on the species and the situation.



The third thing that motivates fish is reproduction. Fish naturally want to spawn. And they will usually do so in tanks as long as we do not do things which discourage this.

Next, when we talk about recognition it may not mean the same thing to a fish. But if we consider the process- a large something approaches the tank, our footsteps cause vibrations and our form may just be a huge blob as opposed to something with recognizable features. And then we lift the lid which means our hand/arm is above the water surface. We are providing lots of cues for the fish.

Finally, most of us tend to feed once a day on average. We also tend to do so at the same time range every day. So, the light conditions in the room/tank may matter? Many of my fish will assume their feeding positions in error several times a day. How "smart" are they really, But we also know that most fish in the wild may not eat as regularly as we feed in tanks. Fish are most likely hard wired to some extent to know where to find food or to learn this.

Finally, I believe that fish can learn to a certain extent and that this is connected to survival. New fish in a new tank do not come to the surface when we approach a tank, In fact, feeding often causes them to hide/run at first. But over time they "learn" there are no predators in the tank and then where and when the food seems to become available.

If you are unfaliar with the Pavlov's dog,

from https://simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html

As a psych major I had to do the classical conditioning experiment but with rats, not fish.

honeybees, who have 0.01% of the neurons that humans do, can recognize and remember individual human faces. Fish have much larger brains. So we may underestimate their cognitive abilities.

 

[jaylach]

Also interesting. Likely to be a difference in vibration. I know that my rope fish has very poor eyesight and hunts mostly by smell and vibration.

 

[GaryE]

It come back to one of my regular statements - no such thing as a fish.

Different fish species have different abilities and senses. No one size explains all is possible. I know a researcher who tells the difference between species in one Genus by registering how they signal electrically. They look the same to us, but they speak different frequencies. We can't go there without technology, and they live by it.

We don't have lateral lines, or the degree of chemical communication, which in many fish species is far superior to ours. They may wonder how we perceive them...

Cichlids have good eyes. Species evolved in murky habiats have poor ones, generally. Insect ambushers have great close in vision and probably can't see far away us other than as blobs. Chase predators have great long range vision, and we often see them as more intelligent. Territorial fish recognize markers, so why wouldn't they see faces? They may or may not care, but they perceive details to survive. If we had eyes like Anableps, seeing above and below the water? Cool.

They probably see hairless apes of varying degrees of lumpiness, and think we carelessly drop food.

 

[betta4ever!]

My German Blue Rams think I'm the food God, lol. Otherwise they don't care about me

My wild Bettas I honestly don't think they recognise me as the person who feeds them, but I think that, especially my Jades, like to be around me and enjoy it when I talk to them. They come out and stare at me with their gorgeous blue eyes and just seem so intelligent... I know I might just be going crazy, but no matter what you say, I think they like having me around...

 

[Rocky998]

My German Blue Rams think I'm the food God, lol. Otherwise they don't care about me

My wild Bettas I honestly don't think they recognise me as the person who feeds them, but I think that, especially my Jades, like to be around me and enjoy it when I talk to them. They come out and stare at me with their gorgeous blue eyes and just seem so intelligent... I know I might just be going crazy, but no matter what you say, I think they like having me around...

GBR: "Here comes the food goddess! Please oh mighty one, rain your manna down to our mouths and nourish our small bodies."

 

[GaryE]

Religions usually have that thing where the Deity creates the mortals in its own image. So @Rocky998 , you wouldn't happen to be a huge two legged fish, would you?

I figure we're like raincloiuds to them. The clouds give water, the lumpy apes give food, you know.

 

[jaylach]

Perhaps even a step further. My pond fish all come rushing to the surface when I walk across the decking before they can see me. They completely ignore my wife (or the dog) when they walk across the same decking.

My German Blue Rams think I'm the food God, lol. Otherwise they don't care about me

My wild Bettas I honestly don't think they recognise me as the person who feeds them, but I think that, especially my Jades, like to be around me and enjoy it when I talk to them. They come out and stare at me with their gorgeous blue eyes and just seem so intelligent... I know I might just be going crazy, but no matter what you say, I think they like having me around...

Of course all fish are different just as mammals are different. Take Panda Garras for example. Put your hand in the tank and they will latch on. They will even let you cup your hand and take them out of the tank and pet. Is this due to their actually liking their human? I strongly doubt that. I think it is more that search all you want and I'll be surprised if you can find a natural predator. Much more likely that they have never 'learned' the fight or flight aspect and are just naturally curious and without fear. I think this is why they 'seem' so human friendly. They just can't resist checking out anything different. LOL! Either that or they are major predators in drag seeing if they can eat you.

 

[sharkweek178]

I don't get too sentimental about how the fish think. When I said that my platy looks at me, I don't think it's out of affection. He's not like a dog or cat. Platies are stomachs with fins. He knows I'm a source of food and he's waiting for me to put food in the tank.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Interesting discussion. I had an angelfish that could distinguish between me and my daughter, as my daughter was the food source. Mrs. Badger's betta just goes crazy whenever it sees anyone. He is highly motivated by food. I swear she could teach it tricks if there was a food reward.

The angelfish in my big tank are really interesting. The tank is in a dentist office, and they seem genuinely curious about people, even when food isn't involved. Whenever I'm working in the tank, they follow my hand around and keep tabs on what I'm up to. When random people walk by they seem to be as interested in the people as the people are in them. Who is watching who???

 

[sharkweek178]

This might also be sound recognition. Fish have remarkable hearing involving the lateral line and "ears" and can recognize sounds. Like the feeding tap I use. The reverberations made by different people and animals can likely be detected. Sound travels clearer in water too. I recall reading some years ago how the fish in the aquarium can hear the water running in the pipes of your house. And I know when a car door closed outside, the fish in my tanks would jump.

Interesting thing related to this. There have been boaters who assumed that the sound of their boat motors would scare away sharks. But it actually had the opposite effect. The sound attracted them because the splashing sounded like wounded prey.

 

[Alice B]

Curiosity is also a thing, I think especially in cichlids and larger more predatory fish. Years ago when the house was full of tanks and I had to quarantine some yellow labidichromis, I put one of my tanks down at my neighbor's. It was in her dining room, which doubled as an exercise room. She did some floor work one morning, situps or something, and when she sat up all the yellow labs were lined up in the tank watching her. It was pretty amusing.

 

[emeraldking]

"What do our fish think we are?"
The one who gives them food...