What Could Have Killed My Bacteria?

[mnemonik23]

What could have killed my bacteria? I think my bacteria is dead

I was over a week into cycling. Ammonia was going down, nitrites were going up, I was happy...
It all started when I put that stupid drift stump from LFS into my tank, which grew lots of brown (beard maybe) algae and fungus on it in a few days.
After I removed it, I vacuumed the gravel around the area and also did about 30% water change (water was treated with conditioner prior adding to the tank).
Also, I added Tetra Algae Control once (double dose) as somebody has recommended here.

Well, ammonia level stopped at 1.0ppm, nitrites have disappeared and no sign of nitrates. It has been like that for 3 days already - no progress.
Almost forgot, I added duckweed, which covered about 15-25% of water surface. Some of it stuck in the filter under the sponge, and most of it began to die, probably due to a luck of good light or something in the water...

Current pH is 7.8, temp is 85.6-86F, water clear and I have no idea what to do

Please help me identify the possible bacteria killer so I do not make the same mistake again:

a) nasty stuff that grew on stump
b) Tetra Algae Control
c) Duckweed
d) Something else? But what?


I'd appreciate any advice!

 

[drobbyb]

Duckweed takes up and uses ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as long as it is getting sufficient light for photosynthesis. The other possibility is some unknown chemical in that piece of wood leeching into the water.

 

[rdd1952]

As mentioned, plants will use ammonia in it's pure form before it can be processed by bacteria. That could be part of it. I don't think the wood had any effect on the process at all. The algae was most likely just the normal brown algae that is common during cycling. It is caused by diatoms that feed on the silica leeched from the silicone that seals the tank. It will go away as soon as all the silica is gone and isn't anything to worry about. You have to be careful using algae killers as they could also have an effect on your plants. As a general rule, the only chemicals you should put in the tank are dechlorinator and possibly ferts for the plants.

I would suggest a large water change (75% or so) just to jump start everything again. If there is something in the tank, that would dilute it considerably.

 

[waterdrop]

RDD is the final word on fishless cycling, so I'd just do a large water change, recharge with ammonia and note carefully in your log that you are re-starting.

As far as knowing what might have been the problem, I'd say you've given us a wealth of choices. The biggest wild card might be the algae treatment. Its definately not advisable to be putting any other kinds of chemicals from bottles into your tank when doing a fishless cycle. Fishless cycles are hard enough to read and understand as is without any more complicating factors.

Having a floating plant may have also been a complicating factor in that it may reduce gaseous exchange, which maximally occurs at the surface. One of the reasons airstones are recommended is to help increase surface movement beyond that of the spraybar which should be moving surface water as much as possible. Floating plants, I would think, wouldn't like the agitation beyond a certain point and if they died, would be an O2 sink, using up some of the O2 needed for the developing beneficial bacterial colonies.

My own personal feeling (just based on watching fishless cycling threads here) is that for the average beginner a small to medium number of plants will leave the numbers easier to interpret during fishless. At some point in adding plants, as you pass from a medium to a high number of plants, you move into a whole different type of cycling where the plants will be sucking up most of the ammonia you put in and removing it from exposure to the fledgling bacteria. Your number feedback then from the tests will be lower and different potentially, and to many beginners its more confusing. I do think that having some plants may serve as an inoculant of more of the beneficial bacteria initially than a bare tank, which should be good. This is just a suspicion however and a bare tank will still cycle just fine.

Water changes less that -big- just don't have much meaning during fishless cycling. Any time you decide to water change during fishless, just do the maximum that is easy and recharge with ammonia.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[mnemonik23]

Removed duckweed and did about 75%-80% water change yesterday night.
Added ammonia to about 3-4ppm.

My LFS has Tetra SafeStart, which supposed to be shelf stable bacteria supplement.
Do you guys think it's ok to try it at this point?


Thanks!

 

[rabbut]

Try it by all means, but IMO it won't do anything. One of my collegues at work swears by the product, but it has never worked for me. Apparently you need "real fish, not pointless liquid ammonia" to start a cycle and thus have the product work We are forever arguing over whether fishless or fish-in cycling is the better option also....

If you have a friend/relative running a tank ATM, getting some mature filter media IMO would be a more cost-effective and reliable method of getting some more bacteria in there

 

[rdd1952]

I wouldn't waste my money on it. I've never had any success in any of my cycling experiences with the "bacteria in a bottle" products.

 

[mark.w.jones]

Having a very heavily planted tank will undoubtedly slow the fishless cycling process as mentioned they will quickly grab hold of the excess ammonia you are putting in. However, there is also a school of thought that plants bring in with them some of beneficial bacteria which you are hoping to colonise your filter media. I have fishless cycled all my tanks with plants and they have taken no more than 4 weeks from start to finish without matured media. As mentioned, matured media is the key to a much quicker fishless cycle.

 

[mnemonik23]

nobody from my friends has aquariums... I even posted a topic some time ago if somebody in Atlanta, GA can donate a filter media but haven't seen any responses...

I'd like to get some mature media since I've already lost a week and a few days

 

[drobbyb]

Removed duckweed and did about 75%-80% water change yesterday night.
Added ammonia to about 3-4ppm.

My LFS has Tetra SafeStart, which supposed to be shelf stable bacteria supplement.
Do you guys think it's ok to try it at this point?


Thanks!

It's the shelf stable version of Bio-Spira. Biospira had to be refrigerated. The cold stuff worked.

 

[waterdrop]

Hi mnemonik23!

Could you give us a review of your log notes since you "restarted" your fishless cycle?
We'll need: tank volume, available test kits, temp, tap stats, date restarted, tank stats since restart.

Thanks,
~~waterdrop~~

 

[mnemonik23]

Hi mnemonik23!

Could you give us a review of your log notes since you "restarted" your fishless cycle?
We'll need: tank volume, available test kits, temp, tap stats, date restarted, tank stats since restart.

Thanks,
~~waterdrop~~

waterdrop, thank you for following up!
I think I have troubles with pH drop

I did not test tap water before I began second attempt... I had no idea that tap water parameters could change... When ammonia dropped to 0 I added it back to 5ppm. I didn't wait 24 hours, thought that ammonia will raise my pH, but it did not.

Tank: 29 gallon
Temp: 85.6F-86F
Test Kit: API Master Test Kit

The rest is on the image of my log below.



Thanks!

 

[raptorrex]

As mentioned, plants will use ammonia in it's pure form before it can be processed by bacteria. That could be part of it. I don't think the wood had any effect on the process at all. The algae was most likely just the normal brown algae that is common during cycling. It is caused by diatoms that feed on the silica leeched from the silicone that seals the tank. It will go away as soon as all the silica is gone and isn't anything to worry about. You have to be careful using algae killers as they could also have an effect on your plants. As a general rule, the only chemicals you should put in the tank are dechlorinator and possibly ferts for the plants.

I would suggest a large water change (75% or so) just to jump start everything again. If there is something in the tank, that would dilute it considerably.

much as i said in the OP's first post on the matter. unfortunately a ridiculously frightening id of the moss and white stuff, by another member, shocked the poor guy proper

 

[mnemonik23]

As mentioned, plants will use ammonia in it's pure form before it can be processed by bacteria. That could be part of it. I don't think the wood had any effect on the process at all. The algae was most likely just the normal brown algae that is common during cycling. It is caused by diatoms that feed on the silica leeched from the silicone that seals the tank. It will go away as soon as all the silica is gone and isn't anything to worry about. You have to be careful using algae killers as they could also have an effect on your plants. As a general rule, the only chemicals you should put in the tank are dechlorinator and possibly ferts for the plants.

I would suggest a large water change (75% or so) just to jump start everything again. If there is something in the tank, that would dilute it considerably.

much as i said in the OP's first post on the matter. unfortunately a ridiculously frightening id of the moss and white stuff, by another member, shocked the poor guy proper

That's ok. We all learn on mistakes and I'm not in a hurry. I just want to do it right.
I worry about my pH though. What should I do?

 

[waterdrop]

Nice chart.

During fishless cycling I found that I could work with baking soda to counteract the really low pH crashes I was getting. The ideal way to do this is to be measuring KH as well as pH so that you can get used to the relationship. But there's nothing wrong (that I can see) with going ahead with some baking soda prior to having a KH kit, you just won't be able to see the results of your baking soda actions as well.

In your case you are down to pH=6.4, which is not quite at 6.2 where the cycle is generally expected to stall, so technically you could wait another day or two possibly, watching pH, but if you have some pure baking soda in the kitchen (make sure its baking soda (aka NaHCO3, aka Sodium Bicarbonate) and not baking powder!) you should add 2 teaspoons, I'd say, for a 29G. Just sprinkle slowly on surface, it will all dissolve eventually.

This will raise the carbonate hardness (measured in german degrees KH) and may not immediately raise the pH, but it should stabilize the pH and help it to resist going down farther. Then just continue to record your stats and post them and we'll keep an eye out for whether we should do a big water change at some point here and recharge with ammonia and baking soda. If your ammonia gets to zero then recharge it to 5 again of course.

Did I forget anything?
~~waterdrop~~