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Water Testing with Plants

BkkprGal

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Good morning,

I am still trying to "season" my new 10gal tank and I've finally had about a month of no issues. I only have a little bit of Sagittaria in there now, but in a few months I'd like to add a couple more plants.

I'm currently using Seachem Flourish. I read that Iron levels should be regularly tested so I purchased the Sera Iron test kit. Is there anything else I should be testing for aside from my usual water quality tests? I still have time to return the Sera kit if there's a different one you suggest.

I had my well water tested a few months ago - results attached. Could someone please interpret this with regards to how these parameters will affect my plant selection, what to look out for, possible supplements needed? There are so many resources out there and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by too much info.

20220601_091808.jpg


Thank you!
 

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  • 3-22-22 NGA Well Water Test.png
    3-22-22 NGA Well Water Test.png
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Well water test results.
There are 3 columns, Parameters, Concentration in Sample, EPA Maximum Level.

The Parameters are the type of thing they test for in the water, eg: sodium, calcium, nitrate, etc.

Concentration in Sample is the test result in ppm (ppm = parts per million). Where it says "negligible" that just means there is no reading appearing in the test so the result is as close to 0 as you can get without saying 0.

EPA Maximum Level is the Environmental Protection Authorities maximum safe level for that item to be in drinking water.

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pH 7.1, your water has a pH just above neutral but really close to neutral. 7.0 is neutral.

Alkalinity is KH (carbonate hardness) and is 33ppm, which is low but not too low.

There's no Aluminium, Boron, Chromium, Copper, Fluoride, Iron, Manganese, Molybdenum or Nickel in the water so that is good.

There's no Phosphate in the water, which is good but there is Phosphorus, albeit low levels, which isn't that good. Phosphates/ Phosphorus is generally from artificial fertiliser runoff from farming properties and can cause algae problems. But plants can use it and it's low level so shouldn't be an issue.

There is low levels of Calcium and Magnesium, which form the main part of the general hardness (GH).

There are low levels of Potassium, Sodium and Zinc, which are nothing to worry about.

You have a little bit of Chloride and Sulphate, which are usually from the Calcium, Magnesium or Sodium. eg: Sodium Chloride is common salt that you put on food. You can also get Calcium Chloride, Calcium Sulphate, Magnesium Chloride & Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts).

There is some Nitrate (0.5ppm), which is low but again suggests there is some fertiliser runoff getting into the water.

Conductivity Specific Conductance @ 25C is how well the water has electricity passing through it at 25 degrees Celcius. It doesn't affect fish and is nothing to be worried about. Generally the more minerals in the water, the higher the conductivity rating. Their test is done using water that is 25 degrees Celcius.

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) - Estimated 37ppm is just things dissolved in the water. Again nothing to worry about and has little to do with fish keeping.

They say your water is slightly hard water, but I would say it is soft and good for Corydoras, tetras, rasboras, gouramis, Bettas, angelfish and South American dwarf cichlids..
 
There is some Nitrate (0.5ppm), which is low but again suggests there is some fertiliser runoff getting into the water.
Nitrate is given as nitrate-N rather than nitrate-NO3 which is what our test kits use. But as that 0.5 converts to 2.2 ppm on the same scale as our test kits, it is still low.
 
So, from all that information. Buy a whole lot of stemmed plants (Fast growing). And get your tank going, you have nothing to worry about. You need to add some more substrate to the base of your tank, it needs to be about twice as deep as it is at the moment.
 
I'm currently using Seachem Flourish. I read that Iron levels should be regularly tested so I purchased the Sera Iron test kit. Is there anything else I should be testing for aside from my usual water quality tests? I still have time to return the Sera kit if there's a different one you suggest.
The reason you have to test for iron is because Seachem uses iron gluconate. Bacteria attack this referring the iron unusable to plants. Iron Gluconate is a terrible iron fertilizer but it is Cheap.

At your PH you could use Iron DTPA instead it is stable at your PH and bacteria don't touch it. 8 once won't cost much and will last a long time and you would need the iron test.

Take a container with 100nl of distilled water and one milliliter of vinegar and 3.44 grams of iron gluconate (equvelent to 1/2TSP+1/4tsp+1/8tsp) or iron DTPA. one one milileater dose will achieve 0.1ppm of iron in a 10 gallon tank about 40 liters) after your weekly water change. 0.1ppm is more than enough so you shouldn't have to worry about it. I have been using it for few years no and I don't have any iron problems with it.

Note this recipe can be adjusted using:

Rotala Butterfly | Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator

Planted Aquarium Nutrient Dosing Calculator
rotalabutterfly.com

Sources of iron DTPA
s://www.nilocg.com/shop/iron-chelate-11-dtpa-for-aquarium-plants/
https://greenleafaquariums.com/products/dtpa-chelated-iron-0-5lb-jar.html

However note that flourish is a sulfate baed fertilizer. your KH will react with the sulfates and cause the micro nutrients in it to turn into insoluble metal carbonates which plants cannot use. Flourish is works best when dosed frequently. So take the recommended dose and break that up into 7or 5 doses for the week. Even then you might have to dose more than recommended to get good results. unless you end up with a nutrient deficiency.

Nutrient deficiency can be caused by the KH interaction or simply because the fertilizer doesn't have enough of a nutrient. Seachem assumes your water will supply most of the calcium and magnesium zinc and copper your plants need. Now your water has enough copper and Calcium. But Magneisum in my opinion is marginal. You could run out.

However the water test your have lists no EPA limit from most of the items. EPA Does have limits for copper and Chromium and probably most of the others. Also It doesn't list sulfur, potassium, Iron, manganese, molybdenum and nickel. All plant nutrients. Your water test appeared to only test for isome of the thingsthat are important for drinking water. This mail ortest <whcih I have used, will test for 33 elements including all plant nutrients down to 1 part per billion.
 
My apology I didn't notice the table was 2 tables side by side. So your water test results were more comprehensive than I originally perceived.
 
There's no Phosphate in the water, which is good but there is Phosphorus, albeit low levels, which isn't that good. Phosphates/ Phosphorus is generally from artificial fertiliser runoff from farming properties and can cause algae problems. But plants can use it and it's low level so shouldn't be an issue.
The amount of phosphate listed Is not enough for plant growth but there is some in the fertilizer. Plant need sphsphate to make DNA during cell reproduction and growth. 1ppm is about what plants need. So if is not good because it is not enoiugh instead unwanted. Phosphate is commonly found in water due to erosion, decay of biomass, as well as fertilizer runoff from farms.

However as I noted earlier KH can dose cover some of the micro sulfate in your fertilizer to metal carbonates. However the micros might also react with phosphate resulting in a phosphate deficiency (metal phosphates are generally not soluble). So if new growth on plants is not green you might need additional phosphate.
 
Ok, @itiwhetu - I'll get some more substrate. Thanks.

Thank you for this breakdown @Colin_T . That was helpful. I knew the water was good for drinking, but wasn't sure in relation to the aquarium.

I have a KH test kit - the kind where you count how many drops you add to the tube until it turns a specific color. The results chart shows a very large range for each number of drops. Is there a better test I should use or is this standard? And is this something I should be testing for regularly - weekly, at every water change, before or after adding iron?
 
@StevenF That you very much for the Chemistry Lesson! :book: There's so much to learn and watch out for. I'm trying to absorb it all.

Why do you recommend stemmed plants? What makes them different in a way that would benefit my set-up? Any particular plant suggestions? I'm a little overwhelmed reading up on them.

Could you please explain the difference between a phosphate/sulfate vs a metal phosphate/sulfate? Google wasn't much help.

So, you're saying I should make up this distilled water/vinegar/ion solution in a jar, for instance, and use that to dose the tank. What does the vinegar add to the solution, why is it important?

Do you have any links to more material on the chemicals in aquarium water - what affects what, how things interact, the effects of plants & fish on them as well. I understand the basics - Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate and that some plants affect these things more than others in how they use and release chemicals.

I do want to add a few more Danios. I had a bad time with ick, fungal infection, salt treatment, etc that made me lose 4 Danios and now I'm down to one large Danio, a small zebra, and three small albino corys. I'd like to just get enough to make a happy school without over burdening the tank. And I think the right plant choice will help manage chemical levels with the extra waste. But, I'm also at a point where the tank is stable so I'm afraid to add anything!

Thanks again @StevenF I look forward to picking you brain some more!
 
I have a KH test kit - the kind where you count how many drops you add to the tube until it turns a specific color. The results chart shows a very large range for each number of drops. Is there a better test I should use or is this standard? And is this something I should be testing for regularly - weekly, at every water change, before or after adding iron?
The KH test you describe is called a titration test. basically by measuring the amount needed to change the color. This is more accurate than comparing the color of a solution to a color chart. Not everyone seas colors the same. This is an alternative. You mix 20 mil of tank water with one 1ml of a reagent from a bottle mix and use an electronic defvice to determine the KH. It is very accurate but costs $50 making it much more expensive. They also sell a very good iron test but you also need to buy lab grad DI water to use it so it is also not cheep. It is a good choice for people that have problems seeing colors or those that want more accuracy.

Why do you recommend stemmed plants? What makes them different in a way that would benefit my set-up? Any particular plant suggestions? I'm a little overwhelmed reading up on them.
I didn't I generally don't recomed any particular plant. In my opinion pick a plant you like and try it. If it doesn't work out try something else.

So, you're saying I should make up this distilled water/vinegar/ion solution in a jar, for instance, and use that to dose the tank. What does the vinegar add to the solution, why is it important?
Fe DTPA is unstable at a PHof above 8. Toe prevent it from going bad use vinegar or citric acid to set the water in the iron bottle to a value of less than PH 8. As long as the PH in the bottle stays low the iron is stable.

Plants need iron, manganese, zinc, copper, and as well as others to grow a total of 14 are needed. . But these metals must be water soluble for plants to use them. So quite often fertilizers use manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, and copper sulfate. The KH in water is typically calcium carbonate or manganese carbonate.

So if you add zinc sulfate ZnSO4 to water with Calcium carbonate CaCO3. a chemical reaction occurs converting the zinc to ZnCO3 and the calcium to CaSO4. Zinc sulfate is soluble and usable by plants while Zinc carbonate is not. Many people find dosing fertilizers more often is better than once a week. The reason is that many common fertilizer ingredients don't last long due to unwanted chemical reactions. Iron is particularly bad because it also reacts with oxygen in the air an potassium phosphate KH2PO4,

To combat this Chelated ingredients are sometimes used. Such as iron DTPA. DTPA is a chelate it will not react with carbonate or oxygen so the iron lasts longer. So a once weekly dose will work. But these ingredients do cost more. which is a big issue for a company so less stable cheeper ingredients are used more commonly. So If you buy fertilizer you typically have to buy more than your plants need. But if you can make your own fertilizer you can save a considerable amount of money.

Sorry I don't have any specific links for all of this. Basically I had problems when I started my aquarium because I have bad water and used RO water. I couldn't find a fertilizer that worked well with my water. And slowly overtime I started to figure it out. Leading me to eventually try making my own fertilizer which worked by well at first and have gradually improved it based on information on the web and other sources. It has taken years but now I can get most plants to grow. But there are still some issues I am trying to figure out.
 
Thank you @StevenF for explaining the zinc sulfate to zinc carbonate reaction. I get it!

And I understand not recommending plants. I know trial and error is how we learn, but I appreciate your information to help me be on a better track for less errors.

Of the 14 minerals that plants need to thrive, it sounds like iron is the most unstable & the most important one that needs to be supplemented. Can I then assume that my water naturally has enough of the other minerals? And if I'm doing regular water changes, then these minerals levels are being adequately maintained?

I tested the water last night and even though I haven't changed the water in two or more weeks all my levels are very good. I was doing water changes every week but I might go to every two weeks since it seems to be in a healthy state. At least until I add more fish

One thing I can't figure out is why my pH is constantly at 7.8. It comes out of the tap at 6, if left out overnight to air out it will go up to 6.7, but after being in the tank it's always 7.8. I really don't know what is in the tank that's causing it to go so high. Everybody seems fine, and it's consistently been at that number since I first set it up. Even when I had completely different substrate and decorations. I would never interfer with it, I just wish I knew why.
 
Of the 14 minerals that plants need to thrive, it sounds like iron is the most unstable & the most important one that needs to be supplemented. Can I then assume that my water naturally has enough of the other minerals? And if I'm doing regular water changes, then these minerals levels are being adequately maintained?
Unfortunately no. Actually most of the micros are unstable (iron, manganese, zinc, copper, molybdenum, and nickel. Iron is the worst but it is a problem with all of them unless you have acidic water with zero KH. But few people have water with zero KH. All other nutrients are generally soluble.

Typically tap water has close to zero iron, manganese. Zinc and Capper are generally present due to metal pipes. old iron pipes were often coated with zinc to preserve the iron. So in the past tap water ty[ically did have moree than enough zinc. However today most homes are made with copper pipe so copper is generally more than enough. However some new homes today often have plastic pipes. And some utilities are gradually replacing metal pipe in the ground with plastic.

Many people also state you want zero to 0.001ppm ofcopper if you have shrimp. However that is not true and shrimp and plants do need copper to live. In my tank I had breading shrimp I found a double dose of my micro fertilizer 0.020ppm of copper didn't have any effect on my shrimp. I don't use my tap water (too hard) but did have my copper measured and it was 0.050ppm of copper in it.

Molybdenum and nickel are only needed at about 0.001ppm for plants. Although I don't have any data I suspect these are commonly pressent at sufficient levels levels in most tanks.

IN larger tanks with a substantial fish load the the w waist can produce enough nutrients t to feed the plants with only an occasional water change instead of weekly water change. Some people can go months without a water change. In smaller tanks this can be difficult to achieve. In my 5 gallon shrimp tank a fertilizer is the only way I have to get enough nutrients.

One thing I can't figure out is why my pH is constantly at 7.8. It comes out of the tap at 6, if left out overnight to air out it will go up to 6.7, but after being in the tank it's always 7.8. I really don't know what is in the tank that's causing it to go so high.
Tap water typically has calcium and magnesium carbonate in it. After bing filtered at the the utility some chlorine is typically injected into it just before it goes into the water pipes. This chlorine reacts with some of the carbonate releasing CO2 in the water. So when water comes out of the tap it will have have some CO2. which will outgas. That can result in the PH going up and is likely happening. However keep in mind that CO2 is a week acid so other chemical reactions once the water comes out o the pipe might be occurring and affecting PH.

Also as plants consume nutrients in the water the PH in the tank can change. It is not unusual to to see a low PH in the morning with the lights off. But when the lights turn back on the plants can change the chemistry pushing it up or down in some case.. So just before the lights turn off the PH cold be substantially different. When I first saw this my pH In the morning was 7 but at the end of the day was 9. Dimming the light solved the problem keeping it close to 7. In this case plant need a lot of carbon and nitrogen, Plants can extract carbonate from the water leaving calcium and magneisum hydroxide. which push the PH up. In fertilizers potassium nitrate is often used as a source of potassium and nitrogen, Plants need a lot more nitrogen than potassium which can result in potassium hydroxide which again pushes the PH up. then when the lights turn off the hydroxides convert to carbonates and the pH drops.

In some tanks the PH drops a little bitt each day. this can be caused by GH boosters which have calcium / magnesium sulfate / chloride. Plants need more calcium and magnesium than sulfur and chloride. As a result plant growth chan result in excess acidity in the water until a water change. This problem can be solved by putting a decorative sea shell or crushed coral in the tank. The are mostly solid calcium carbonate. This will dissolve and neutralize acids pushing the PH to 7. In my tank one sea shell will dissolve in about a year.

However if the water goes acidic it won't up during the night . it will drop a little each day. I solved this problem with a decorative sea shell in the tank. The shell is solid KH and it will dissolve and neutralize acids in the water.
 
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