Water Testing Questions & Other Randoms

h4hapoo

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Hello i'm new to this hence why i am in the new to hobby question. I have 2 (one for each kid)- 20 gallon tanks one with 6 platy and a albino cory and the other tank is cycling. i will probably have a LOT of post for a while, so i will apologize now and probably many more times down the road.
Ok getting on with it,... When testing the water should i be taking water from the bottom of the tank not just grabbing off top? because i read in one topic that ammonia levels are lower on top. if so how do i get it from bottom? also in the fishless cycling what temp should you have heater on? Should i be testing anything besides PH, Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate?
thank you much!
 
Hi h4 and wecome to the forum!

You don't need to worry about where your test water comes from, just take it from the top. A tank should have enough circulation that the measurement is good enough for our purposes.

The optimal "bacterial growing soup" temperature is 84F/29C in my opinion.

It helps to get kids involved in learning the nitrogen cycle. There are some good diagrams around here in our pinned articles.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Thanks waterdrop!
My oldest (10) actually surprises me with how much she knows and i know she is extremely smart (skipped forward 1x refuse to allow it again)! She doesn't like the fact that she has to wait but if i make i actually explain it might make her grow some patience! My youngest (5) is going to start learning cause i want her to be able to help out with her fish! Although she is very observant when it comes to them! She noticed that they suddenly like to stay at top. I guess for some reason the oxygen wasn't enough i got a air pump and they come down but i'm still unsure whats going on. I also had read that a air pump doesn't do much to get oxygen into water that its more for decoration. I have one that loves to swim through the bubbles is that normal? I swear the more i stare at them the more i think something wrong with them.
 
What sort of filter are you using? and is the filter causing water disturbance at the top of the tank?

If you filter outlet is too far under the water you won't be creating and oxygen exchange in the tank, move your filter higher so that the outlet is only a couple of mm below the surface and creates a ripple and water movement on the surface, this will be sufficient for your fish :good:

Andy
 
Yes, agree with Andy's questions, plus H4 is a newcomer so I think we need to review all the basics...

H4, you need to present us with data so we can get started. I suggest you figure out names or some very clear way of differentiating the two 20g tanks for us so we don't all start getting them mixed up in this thread, which could go on for a long time if its like others.

Please post up your test kit make/model and its results for your tap water that we assume is the source of water for your water changes.

Please post up the start date, fish introduction date (if applicable) and days running, type of cycling that was done etc. for each tank.

For the fishless cycling tank, begin posting up tank stats on that one of course. Have you started aquarium notebooks for each tank yet?

~~waterdrop~~
 
Sorry for the delayed response i went away for the weekend, ahh i love the ocean air!
Ok to Start i will call the tank with fish that is established alisha's platy tank and the other that has no fish in it Cassidy's.
So here is the rest of story as with all new comers there probably is. Alisha's tank was originally a 5 gal and one of the fish died (unsure why i had 2 males to 1 female not knowing the difference and not being told the rule of thumb for ratio by lfs, she had no spots or anything so could have been stress). After the fish died i bought a replacement look alike platy so she wouldn't know any better and bought and set up the now 20 gallon ( added 2 more female platy to 5 gal to make it 3 females to 2 males) and was planning on waiting a few weeks (i had started reading things on this forum at this point) but then the filter in 5 gallon died. I had put gravel,water & some of the plastic plants from old 5 gallon (before it crapped out on me) into the new 20 gallon(at suggestion from a hobbyist at different lfs) that cycled like that for about a week before 5 gal died. This 20 gallon tank is from pet smart and has a top fin filter which i think is exclusive to them. I put in 2 mesh bags of these ceramic things that are suppposed to hold the good bacteria ( i was hoping after a while some would be built up so i could put in cassidy's 20 gal.
So in Cassidy's tank i have gravel from alisha's tank and that is all i have done so far really yes water is in there and filter is on there a few real plants and that's it. I want to do the fishless cycle but still haven't found ammonia i can use. the filter on that is a power filter by aqueon. both tanks where a kit. The test kit i have is by API no strips here!
my tap water results are
ph 7.6
ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

As for a note book i have. what exactly should i be keepin besides water stats?
Alisha's tank also has fry in it now too (thats in notebook).
i need to go to emergency one fish has a white spot looks like maybe scales are coming off?
 
The entries in an aquarium notebook can often occupy a single line and here are some suggestions:
1) date
2) Day # (of fishless or fish-in cycling, counting from beginning)
3) temperature
4) pH reading
5) ammonia reading
6) nitrite(NO2) reading (if performed)
7) nitrate(NO3) reading (if performed)
8) % water change (if performed)
9) notation of water clarity observation
10) any actions taken on tank (*)
* its important not to forget obvious ones like things added or removed from the tank. These things seem trivial at the time but the buildup of them in the notebook becomes more and more valuable to you over time.
11) notes on any fertilizers and/or carbon fed to plants, periodic notation of light hours received by plants

You can use the notebook both for these stats and as a place where the kids can intersperse their own pictures and notes or they can participate in the recording of the stats as long as you verify you'll be able to read things later. My son found a spiral notebook with 3D pictures of fish on the front!

Ammonia: Consider adding your location (in the world!) to your profile so the members can further help you with locating the right type of ammonia. Its "household" ammonia usually found in various mop and broom store sections. In the USA its sometimes in grocery stores, Ace hardware, Walmart or other bigbox stores. Its supposed to be clear, with no dyes, no fragrances added and no surfactants or soaps. When you shake it you should see bubbles for 2 or 3 seconds kind of like water but not foam that lasts. If a store person tells you they don't have it you should still look carefully in the likely places of that store. Its kind of an adventure finding it and members always like to hear where you finally found some!

Hopefully you've been doing your homework reading the articles on the Nitrogen Cycle, tank startup and the types of "cycles" in the Beginners Resource Center, right? The working article on Fishless Cycling is by rdd1952 and you'll want to follow the Add & Wait method. You'll want to establish two times of day 12 hours apart, one in the morning and one in the evening. One of these will become your "add mark", the time of day when you'll always add ammonia (but only if it reached zero ppm sometime in the previous 24 hours) (you don't add right when it becomes zero) The two times of day should be chosen because you'll usually be able to be home when they occur, this is one of the challenges.

Sounds like you're on the right path about filter media. We want there to be mechanical and biological media in there but not chemical media. Those are the three functions of a filter and the chemical one is optional and only used when there is a specific need. Carbon and Zeolite are examples of chemical media and we'll not want either in there to start. Your plants will need to be fed or they will quickly die and add to the ammonia load in an unpredictable way.

~~waterdrop~~
 
In MA you want to look in the cleaning section of an Ace / True Value hardware store. It is the place that always seems to have the unscented ammonia in the US.
Move the rest of your media from the dead filter into the flow path of the Topfin filter and move the fish to that tank too. That media should help the fish survive and will keep working as a biological filter as long as it is seeing the waste from your fish. The filter, with its consistent oxygenated water flow will gradually take up the job of being the biological filter for that tank but be sure to give it a few weeks to take over before removing the old media. You are right that Topfin is a name that Petsmart has put on cheap versions of filters like the whisper series. That means there will probably be no place inside the filter for the transferred media but if you can fit some in it would help.
 
Waterdrop & Oldman47 you are a great help!
I have been basically keeping all that info since we got 20 gal. With the exception of the light hours and water clarity> the only time water looked off was a day after i added the drift wood but i can edit that in because i remember when that was. I tested my water in alisha's platy tank and the ammonia spiked to .25 and nitrite to .25 so i did water change. Pretty sure that it was because i had my mother come over and feed them when i was gone this weekend and she put tons of fry food in by accident (i should have told her i use a damp toothpick). I have been doing tons of reading on here and it has been very useful. I wish i had researched more before doing the 5 gal 6 months ago. I'm sure as time goes on i will continue to have more and more questions. I find myself staring at these fish a lot now!
I will go to a different hardware store the one in town only had ammonia with all the added stuff!
Fish from dead tank are in there. do you mean like put the old media under where the water comes out of the filter?

So i have a few questions:
1) In alisha's platy tank the filter is refillable and has carbon in it so i should just take out the carbon right (this is the one that i have the 2 mesh bags with ceramic in)?
2) what should i feed the plants?
3) in Cassidy's tank the filter that comes with it has carbon is there some sponge or something i could basically just shove in even if its not "made" for this filter?
4) are these filters sufficient or should i think of upgrading? if so suggestion would be greatly appreciated!
5) i should establish a hospital tank right? i could use it as quarantine tank too? would 10 gal be a good size?


Thank you so much!
 
Be careful how much you stuff into Cassidy's filter. If you get too much it will slow the return flow and overflow the filter onto the floor.
Leave the carbon in Alisha's filter until things get well established. Right now it has some of the good bacteria on it and you need all that you can get.
The filters are not ideal but will serve the tank size that they are designed for. The question of upgrading filters comes down to how much you are willing to spend to get a little less filter maintenance and to get more flexibility in choosing media. I love my Rena XP series canister filters but they cost a pretty penny and require that you understand the value of different filter materials to take advantage of their flexibility. They are not for people who just want a canned answer from a manufacturer on setting up their filter. Another good answer to biological filtration, especially when there are fry to deal with is a sponge filter with an appropriately sized power head to move water through it. They are safe to use with fry and even provide a place for microorganisms to row that the fry an feed on for the first day or two. With platies, you will have fry.
A quarantine tank is a good idea. As long as you only keep small fish, a 10 gallon is plenty of room for a QT / hospital tank.
Plant ferts is a subject best left to the experts IMO. You can grow plants with nothing but fish wastes for fertilizers and get good survival rates if the plants are carefully chosen. If you really get into plants and decide to go all out, check in with people like AAronNorth in the planted section for advice.
 
so i found the name of the 'ceramic things' that i have in alisha's tank aqua clear filter inserts they are not carbon as i made sure of that!!! As for cramming things in i meant if there was a foam or sponge i could put in (maybe even cut down) after taking the carbon filled that they provide. i didnt know if that was a better way to start since it is not cycled yet. and might make it easier for when we get a better filter?
Ahh yes platy's do give fry we have 10 now and pretty sure that they have different mommies and that there were more but were eaten.
I will go to the plant section for fertilizer questions.
I told my daughter, Cassidy that we can start looking into what fish to have in her tank when it is cycled. I don't want to just go to LFS and get anything i want her to plan it out. Want this tank started properly! Is there any suggestions? she thinks she might want guppies but wants to have more then one type.
 
Zebra danios, rasbora heteromorpha (harlequins), neon/cardinal tetra, head&taillight tetra, glowlight tetra, all sorts of corys.. these are fish she could start researching. Fish being still a long way off (from a child's perspective) you might also want to attempt discussions with the nitrogen cycle charts here and in wikipedia etc. which may or may not work out for you depending on her age and interest and your ability to engage her.

If the Ace doesn't have the ammonia I've heard a few reports of bottles marked "goldex" being in some Walmarts. In the southeast the best stuff was in the mop&broom section of large grocery stores. I've always wondered too whether engaging your pharmacist in conversation about it would bring up any ideas. If you were to do that then also try to get a couple of syringes marked in ml while you're at it, one for tank water and the other for ammonia.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I actually have started talking to her about the process and she did have some basic knowledge. She is very easy to engage in anything that is learning she is like a sponge! I am hoping that in time she will me doing most herself (with me playing close attention so nothing goes wrong). I think that it will be another good outlet for her! We are both aware it will be some time before she gets fish and plan on slowly giving her info to research on fish to by some of the time. Might have her give me a small report too! She came home from visiting her dad and grandmother with a print-out of a fish in cycle! This was after i had explained to him why she can't and won't be putting fish in. needless to say i tore it up and talked to her again explaining.
We do have 2 syringes that i got from the pharmacy. i am going to stop at a couple places on my way to work this morning and know i will have luck getting ammonia today. Waterdrop are you having lots of rain in NC? i feel like we are going to drown soon here!
 
Oh, lol, then my brother is going home to lots of rain! We've had much more than usual this spring but we're finally having a perfectly beautiful week, sunny and high 80's, perfect for Oliver's tennis lessons!

~~waterdrop~~
 

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