Water softeners?

[Bdoggy]

My Sister lives in an area with very hard water 357 mg/l for gh is what the city report says.. she however has a water softener in her house.. she didn't even realize but she has been using the filtered water for her tanks. Just a 5 and 10 gallon with snails and a betta...
I guess my question is. What effect does the softener have and can you mix maybe half filtered and half from the hose to get a happy medium in water hardness?.
Also her betta is not doing too good. He has a lump and I'm wondering if you guys can tell me what it is.
Thanks.
B.

 

[Byron]

On the water hardness issue, the softener may be more dangerous than the hard water. Many softeners replace calcium and magnesium salts (these dissolved minerals determine the GH) with sodium chloride (common salt) and the latter can be much worse for soft and very soft water fish.

 

[Colin_T]

Also her betta is not doing too good. He has a lump and I'm wondering if you guys can tell me what it is.

Need pictures of the fish from the front and both sides to be more certain, but if it has a lump sticking out one side of the body and not the other side, it is probably a tumour or cyst. There's no cure for either and you simply euthanise the fish when it stops eating or can't swim properly.

 

[Lynnzer]

I just had a new water heater installed and I asked the fitter about fitting a water softener. He knows why I need it for my tanks. My supply is at 460ish ppm, sort of like liquid rocks.
He says they're not suitable and recommended R.O. instead.
So right now I'm sticking with rainwater mixed with tapwater. AND IT RAINED OVERNIGHT........

 

[Essjay]

Yesterday's thunderstorm missed you then - not much thunder & lightening, but a lot of rain here.

 

[Glenn407]

I have a softener, well water that has no odor or smell but it's rock hard. I ran a 1/2 copper line a few feet to my utility room sink tied to the hard water side which I use for my tank. I have read that even at the highest setting the salt added to your water is minimal ie mg's per quart. Course that's minimal for humans. fish, I don't know.

 

[Lynnzer]

It started to rain about midnight but not heavy. Only filled 3 x5ltr bottles from the barrel. Was useful though. My 60ltr tank had become infested with hair algae so I left it with no lighting for a week and it all died back to a slurry. The water tested fine for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate but there was 1 deceased neon. Possibly low oxygen levels.
I fitted a new H.O.B. using the old filter sponges and 50 percent water change 50/50 tapwater and rainwater to give me 228ppm and pH of around 7.

 

[AtomicFish]

My house uses a water softener and my fish are doing well.

 

[Bdoggy]

My house uses a water softener and my fish are doing well.

What types of fish do you keep?

 

[AtomicFish]

What types of fish do you keep?

I have 2 angels and a cory catfish and a black. Skirt tetra. Used to have more tetra but most died off do to old age. I also used to have cherry barbs in there.

 

[Colin_T]

SOLAR STILL
You can make a solar still, which would probably work well in California. It would give you pure water, no waste water and be free to make pure water, it just requires a bit of sunlight.

Get a large plastic storage container and put it outside in the sun.
Pour a bucket of water into the storage container.
Put a clean bucket in the middle of the storage container. Have a rock in the bucket to stop it floating around.
Put the lid on the storage container.
Put a rock or small weight on the lid in the middle, so the lid sags above the bucket.

As the sun heats up the container, water will evaporate and condense on the underside of the lid. The water will run towards the centre and drip into the bucket. When the bucket is full of water, you put it into a holding container and put the bucket back in the storage container with another bucket of tap water.

You get pure water with a pH of 7.0, 0 GH, 0KH and no wasted water, no power used and it's cheap to set up.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Modern water softeners are designed to get the sodium chloride down to low levels in the softened water. Also they can be run using potassium chloride which leaves no salt. I believe this costs more. Modern water softeners use resin beads and brine solution flushes out the hardness removed., Very litlle salt gets into the output side of the water and ais not normally an issue in fish tanks. The p[roblems can occur with the flushed brine solution and where ti goes. Have a read here https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/types-of-water-softeners/9ba683603be9fa5395fab90a9a379a7


RO/Di is not as costly as one might imagine. I have a portablle RO/Di unit that costs about $140 today. It uses garden hose connections and I have one of these on my utility sink. I love it and I even take on the road to weekend fish events so I can do a 50/50 mix of hotel water and pure water. I only use about 12 gallons/week and I batch it every 5 weeks or so and store it. I could up this volume if needed.

 

[Colin_T]

Modern water softeners are designed to get the sodium chloride down to low levels in the softened water. Also they can be run using potassium chloride which leaves no salt.

Potassium chloride is just as bad for your kidneys as sodium chloride. Take your pick of poison

 

[StevenF]

On the water hardness issue, the softener may be more dangerous than the hard water. Many softeners replace calcium and magnesium salts (these dissolved minerals determine the GH) with sodium chloride (common salt) and the latter can be much worse for soft and very soft water fish.

Sodium chloride doesn't wind up in th softened water. Sodium bicarbonate is in the softened water pushing the KH up to very high values. If potassium chloride is used potassium bicarbonate ends up in the water. Again pushing the KH up to very high values. GH also drops to near zero in the softened water. The higher the GH of the tap water the higher the KH of the softened water. In natural water most of the KH is from calcium and magensium. Not potassium or sodium.

Unfortunately Calcium, Magnesium, sodium, and potassium play a critical role in controlling osmotic pressured in the cells of the body. If the levels are out of ballance the health of the fish will be significantly impacted. Unfortunately the changes made to the water make softened water dangerous to fish. Also the high KH of the water will also damage fertilizers and will make it hard to grow plants. DON'T USE SOFTENED WATER.

RO/DI water is the best choice and remineriallize with a GH booster. Do not use a KH up or booster product to control PH. These KH products use potassium bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate. Instead use crushed coral, or sea shells in the filter. if the PH drops in the aquarium the acids will react and be neutralized by shells or crushed coral. The PH will then go up to about 7 bot not much higher. it is totally passive any you don't need to do anything other than add more as it is consumed. A spoon full will last about one year and it doesn't cost much.

A solar still sounds great but it is a slow process to heat the water with the sun the evaporate it and then cool it back down to to condense the purified water. It does work but you cannot buy this you would have to make it. And it would probably have to be very large to create a reasonable production rate.

 

[Bdoggy]

SOLAR STILL
You can make a solar still, which would probably work well in California. It would give you pure water, no waste water and be free to make pure water, it just requires a bit of sunlight.

Get a large plastic storage container and put it outside in the sun.
Pour a bucket of water into the storage container.
Put a clean bucket in the middle of the storage container. Have a rock in the bucket to stop it floating around.
Put the lid on the storage container.
Put a rock or small weight on the lid in the middle, so the lid sags above the bucket.

As the sun heats up the container, water will evaporate and condense on the underside of the lid. The water will run towards the centre and drip into the bucket. When the bucket is full of water, you put it into a holding container and put the bucket back in the storage container with another bucket of tap water.

You get pure water with a pH of 7.0, 0 GH, 0KH and no wasted water, no power used and it's cheap to set up.

I might try this. Trying to catch rain water could be hit or miss.. It rains mostly in the fall/winter. So this might make sense for my 10gal tank to get the parameters I want.