Water Change Systems (low Maintenance)

[Gun]

Hey guys

Do you know where I can find some info on water change systems for multiple tanks?

Ideally it will be a 'turn of the tap' style system. Taking 15-20% from each tank, every week.

Will I need at least 2 large pumps? One for taking the water, the other for replacing? Also, heating/dechlor of the replaced water?...maybe a filled barrel/s (straight from tap), sit it (indoors) for 2-3 days (aired somehow?), then use a pump to pump the water from barrel/s to tanks (via pipework)?

Taking the water? Hmmm, pipework around walls..with a smaller pipe (coming from the main pipe) in to each tank. Cut these smaller pipes so they sink just past the 20% mark in each tank...then use these somehow to suck the water? Each submerged pipe will be covered will mesh/netting to stop fish being pulled in.

Is this how I should do it guys?

Not sure if this can be done using the same pipe for suction/blowing? Or will I need to seperate pipes, with two smaller pipes per tank (one for suction, the other for refilling).

 

[Attilauk]

the simplest way i can think of doing it would be running a common filter system for all your tanks from a largeish sump unit like you find in a LFS.

all you would need to do then is do a water change in the sump and it would act as a water change for the entire system.

i think a system taking water out each tank individually would be massively overcomplicated and very expensive.

have a look at CFC's excelent 900g tank thread for his filter setup

 

[Gun]

The filters in most tanks will be 'air driven sponge' types. This is a far cheaper/safer method and you get the bonus of individual filtration.

Surelly a water change system can't be that expensive. How to take/replace the water with heated/dechlor is what I am trying to work out....

Storing the water doesn't seem to complicated. 1-3 barrels kept indoors, fill with tap water and let it stand/airating for 24/48hrs or so. A pipe running from the barrel/s along walls with individual pipes coming off into each tank (at a measured depth). As long as there's no chloromine in the local water..if I can get something large enough to air/stir the water, this would take care of chlorine.

The pipe to take the water would be at the opposite end of each tank..again sinking to a measured depth. Once 20% of the the water has been taking from all tanks, the refill pump will be started.

So, in the end... to cover water change/airation/filtration I would have have 2-3 main pipes running along walls (air/water). These would be ran on large pumps (minimum number possible within budget). The only thing I would have to do manually is to top the barrels up now and then and condition the sponge filters every 1/2 months..with some substrate cleaning.

Hosing could be a cheaper method for the water change system...as long as it works how I want and is neat along the walls.

When complete, each individual tank should have 2(taking/refilling) pipes and 2 airlines inserted...through custom built lids.

Hmmm, how the hell do I put this all together? lol!

 

[Attilauk]

it just seems to me that if you want to put pipes into and out of each tank, stick large pumps into the system and have somewhere storing large barrels of water you are 95% there towards a common filter system.

you can pick up pond pumps fairly cheaply to run the system and a cheap tank off ebay for the sump...

i can see the benefit of individual filtration though, one problem doesn't then affect all the tanks. how many tanks are you looking at? the only issue with your system i can think of is controlling the flow rate back into the tanks, going back to the hydraulics i learned at uni you will have a pressure drop over the system which will cause different tanks to fill at different rates. also i take it you would be pre-heating the water in the barrels before adding it to the tanks?

 

[5teady_2012]

Stop been lazy and do it by bucket.

just kidding, i think the sump as mention in one of the above posts is going to benefit you more than 3000 pipes running round your house

 

[Gun]

Thanks for the advice Attilauk & 5teady

Hmm imo, sump is out of the question.

I'm not that experienced in fishkeeping and a mass disease outbreak is something I think could happen and will be very difficult, if not impossible to rid.

You shouldn't see many pipes. Maybe 2 main rows (one row near ceiling, the other inbetween tanks). In each row there will be a narrow 'main' airpipe...along with 1 or 2 pipes for the water changes. So that would be 4-6 main pipes running along walls, two of which will be very narrow to keep air pressure, the other 2-4 will be wider to carry water. The small offshoot pipes should be hidden through the lid/curtain above/inbetween racks..leaving them only visible underwater inside tank (one at each side sinking to around 20-25% depth)

Fish fur n feather sell the pipework, although I'm unsure of thickness? What do you reckon guys for the main air pipe...how thick? Also should it be hose or pipe for the water change (what thickness)?

"it just seems to me that if you want to put pipes into and out of each tank, stick large pumps into the system and have somewhere storing large barrels of water you are 95% there towards a common filter system."

The sole reason for this is to eliminate the manual task of 'multiple' water changes. My current job demands 7am-5pm and I would like to spend what little spare time I have on other areas of the fish house. Ok I'm lazy, lol!

If the room heats up how I intend it to, then I think a barrel or two should reach the same temp as the room in say 2-3 days. Could always add a heater to the barrel to speed things up.

Pressure drops/what's going on inside the pipes/size of pumps I need/flow rates are all things I'm very unsure about? I would hate to put a system together and it doesn't work...because of some pressure/flow rate thingy.

There must be a plan for what I am asking on the net.....maybe I take a look.

 

[CFC]

What you basicly want is 22mm pipes with valves coming from each tank which join onto a 40mm waste pipe which flows straight to a drain, get each tank syphoning into the waste and use the valves to switch the syphon flow on/off.

For refilling you need to plumb an upstand off the mains with pipe work around the room with taps coming off the ring above each tap.

Its all quite simple to set up but unfortunately not cheap, i did plan on doing something like this in my fish house but ran out of money for the project.

 

[rabbut]

How about running banks of say 4 tanks off a sump each, with UV sterilisers on the return line to prevent disease? Plumbing is fairly simple and "out of sight" if you don't mind a bit of noise either

Drill two 1inch holes about two inches down from the top of each tank that isn't a sump, and install bulkheads that make the hole attachable to pipe, without leaking water anywhere but into the pipes. These are then plumbed to the sump. A pump in the sump then pushes water back into the display tanks via more ridged pipe with valves to adjust for pressure difference in the pipes due to differing head heights. You then fill up the middle tank(s) untill it overflows, followed by the top and then the sump. This lets the tanks sit in a "power outage scenario" before you swithch on. The pump in the sump fills the tanks up untill the water overflows down the other pipes back to the sump to be filtred. Once on, mark the water level so you know where to re-fill to at waterchange time, so that the sump does not overflow if the power goes down or the return pump fails.

These sumps could then be plumbed to drain on a valve to just above where the pumps suck air, with a valve to start and stop waterchanges. You can then refill the sump from the hose to finish the waterchange. As simple as open a valve, make a cuppa, come back, close a valve, dump in dechlor and open another valve. Drink cuppa while waiting for the sump to refill, and close the second valve once the max line is reached

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Gun]

Hmmm yeah, I've realised that the actual lengths of pipework are fairly cheap...but the fittings/valves/bends/etc can be expensive.

Do you think £400 is pushing my luck to cover the water change/air systems (pumps included)...if I stuck to the idea of individual filtration?

 

[rabbut]

Sounds fisable to me from a cost prospective, espessially bulk buying the parts. You could fill direct from the mains supply if you are only doing 30% waterchanges also, rather than using pumps from pre-heated vats It's plumbing so that you can get the tanks to drain after the drain syphen is broken at the 30% line that will be hard without drilling the tanks. Drilling 30 tanks will take time, so that is a few weekends work for you in that system already I still think you'd be best off with either a centralised system or banks of say 4 on a common sump for a low maintanance set-up Sumps will cost more at outlay though, and will require about as much setting up. Which to you is the lesser of the two evils?

 

[Gun]

Hmmm, I don't know...still not sure if I fully understand.

In an ideal world (if budget can cover it)...

There would be 2 large pumps, one for air and the other for water change. 2 rows of pipes will come from the pumps (one row above top tanks, the other row going through and inbetween the racks (above bottom tanks). In each row there will be 1-3 pipes (depending on how many I need for water change?).

AIR PIPE: At least 2 airlines for every tank will be accessable from this pipe. Ideally, individual control of the air going to each tank will be possible. Guys, can you help me work out what size pump I would need?...any info just ask.

WATER CHANGE: 2 pipes. Each at opposite ends of tank. The 'take' pipe will be submerged around to about 20-25% of each tank, with mesh/net over end. The 'replace' pipe will sit just above the highest water level of each tank and somehow replace the water, without overflowing the tanks? Individual control of water replacement will be possible (if possible), whether it be I want to drain/replace all tank together or individual/several tanks at once.

Can it be done? If so, I really need a dummies guide to putting this all together.

Oh yeah, my dad has 'just' suddenly decided to tell me he has lengths of that flexible pipe (30M of 15mm & 30M of 22mm) Can this be used to save on costs? I could get all the way around shed at least once per pipe..and still have 10M spare on both piping.

 

[andywg]

AIR PIPE: At least 2 airlines for every tank will be accessable from this pipe. Ideally, individual control of the air going to each tank will be possible. Guys, can you help me work out what size pump I would need?...any info just ask.

Get the biggest you can get. Look at the large pond ones that need manifolds. You can have a tap based outlet from the "air ring" to easily allow control for each tank.

WATER CHANGE: 2 pipes. Each at opposite ends of tank. The 'take' pipe will be submerged around to about 20-25% of each tank, with mesh/net over end. The 'replace' pipe will sit just above the highest water level of each tank and somehow replace the water, without overflowing the tanks? Individual control of water replacement will be possible (if possible), whether it be I want to drain/replace all tank together or individual/several tanks at once.

You don't want to use a pump for a water change (see below)

Can it be done? If so, I really need a dummies guide to putting this all together.

Oh yeah, my dad has 'just' suddenly decided to tell me he has lengths of that flexible pipe (30M of 15mm & 30M of 22mm) Can this be used to save on costs? I could get all the way around shed at least once per pipe..and still have 10M spare on both piping.

Ok, here is how I would do the system. Drill every tank with a relatively small hole (CFC's 22mm is good, look for the cheapest bulkhead you can find and buy a load of them) and have this set up so that once the water gets over a level fairly close to the top of the tank it will flow into this tank and into a drain. Simplest way is to drill the back/side of the tanks near the top, put in the bulkhead and whack on a guard shield to stop fish going for a ride.

That is the drain part. Nice and easy. Now you can choose either a constant or a controlled input style.

Controlled is easy, you just need a long hose connected to the mains. Put a bit of de-chlorinator in each of the tanks and then spend some time putting more water into all of them. The new water will push the old water out and perform the water change for you nice and easy. It won't be as perfect as taking old water out and replacing with new (as some of the new water will go down the drain too) but it is easy.

Constant takes more effort, but is more rewarding and makes the room pretty much zero maintenance. You need to get a pipe from the mains going into the room and create a ring with pipes carrying water to above all the tanks (you can use the spare flexible pipe for this if you like). Then fit valves and have pipes/hose going into each of the tanks. Then you just turn on the water and adjust the level of flow with the taps. This will give you constant water changes.

If you are worried about chlorine you can either put one of those inline filters on it or just does weekly with a load of de-chlorinator into each tank.

Hopefully the above will help you.

 

[Gun]

Thanks for that Andy

Yeah, I like the 'constant' idea using inline dechlorinators. This would like you say eliminate the storage of water. I'm going to try and work out exactly what I need and what the cost is, then decide from there.

For some reason I just don't like the idea of drilling

EDIT: "Get the biggest you can get. Look at the large pond ones that need manifolds." Would say £100-150 get me the size I'm looking for?

 

[andywg]

For some reason I just don't like the idea of drilling

It really is easy. Trust me

The bits can be bought on ebay for about a fiver delivered, just keep it wet and don't go fast. There are picture and video tutorials either in the hardware or SW hardware area. If you are nervous, practice on some scrap bits of glass until you are happy.

I don't have a single tank that hasn't been drilled (barring sump tanks).

EDIT: "Get the biggest you can get. Look at the large pond ones that need manifolds." Would say £100-150 get me the size I'm looking for?

That should easily get you what you are looking for. Best bet is to speak to someone like CFC who already uses one for about 1,000 gallons of filtration and look at what his can do. I'm fairly sure his has a load of spare capacity and has to bleed some to air.